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2015 Database v4: New OVL rating
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| tastasol |
Posted on 25-04-2015 14:09
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Classics Specialist
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My riders/team is listed as CT btw.
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 14:10
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World Champion
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So, I have taken a look at some riders I would like to reinstate with some other stats, more like what they would have IRL.
Nikias Arndt Current stats:
71 77 74 56 76 75 70 63 71 73 59 63 56
Nikias Arndt Suggested stats:
73 66 71 76 76 75 70 63 77 78 59 71 75
Magnus Cort Current stats:
71 75 73 70 74 73 72 60 54 70 65 64 70
Magnus Cort Suggested stats:
73 65 73 70 75 73 72 67 77 78 67 68 73
Also perhaps give Kwiatkowski 78TT, just to make him look slightly more like he does IRL. ATM his stats doesn't represent how versatile he actually is. I don't want to make him exactly as good as he is IRL though. Also IMO there lacks a good italian climber since some of the best are going down quite a lot. Perhaps make Fabio Aru keep his current stats but make him 4.00 instead of 4.100 would add for some more italian climbing talent.
Another small thing. "Jempy" Drucker has annoyed me for seasons. His name is Jean-Pierre.
Perhaps remove ceased riders aswell, once they become Free Agents? Kristof Goddaert for example.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 09:06
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 14:10
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World Champion
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tastasol wrote:
My riders/team is listed as CT btw.
Haven't you heard? 
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 25-04-2015 14:12
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Team Manager
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SotD wrote:
Another small thing. "Jempy" Drucker has annoyed me for seasons. His name is Jean-Pierre.
He clearly goes by Jempy, see:
https://www.jempydrucker.lu/
https://twitter.com/jempy_drucker
Edited by SportingNonsense on 25-04-2015 14:12
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| Bjartne |
Posted on 25-04-2015 14:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2907
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Third version seems very accurate for my team as well. Very happy with the new system  |
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| Roman |
Posted on 25-04-2015 14:52
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Grand Tour Specialist
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@SotD I believe Bewley is exactly where he should be in rankings of riders, I really have to disagree with your opinion. He needs to deliver me way more podium results than GC riders, because they have way more oppurtunities to score in stage races - if Bewley fails in one stage of a classic, he won't gain almost anything from that race, that is a big difference with riders who are riding GTs. And as you are mentioning the individual standings - he was 4th and 3rd in the last couple of seasons. But that was simply due to a fact that there are way more great stage racers and climbers than riders for cobble classics and sprinters in PT and that allowed him to gain more points than he has his abilites for. But he really is no better rider than Spilak, Schleck, Pluchkin, Madrazo or Hagen IMO.
The OVL now looks way better indeed, especially riders like Van Stayen or Impey are now way higher the ranks, exactly where I believe they deserve to be. Only thing that really doesn't look good for me is that Sergent has a better OVL than a rider like Kai Reus, even it really does not make any sense. He is literally worse in everything important except he has one higher TT stat.
| Last name | First name | FL | MO | HIL | TT | STA | RES | REC | COB | SP | ACC | FHT | DH | PRL | OVL | | Sergent | Jesse | 79 | 65 | 69 | 80 | 69 | 74 | 71 | 53 | 61 | 51 | 70 | 59 | 80 | 77,92 | | Reus | Kai | 77 | 71 | 74 | 79 | 76 | 79 | 78 | 67 | 54 | 62 | 81 | 69 | 79 | 77,88 |
From every point of view every manager would rather want Reus in their team than Sergent, especially if they are going to want a similar wage in renewals as I believe OVL is still going to be a biggest factor in the decision how big wage the rider will want. The value of similar riders like Sergent - Durbridge, Yatsevich, Kittel or even Ford is IMO still too high than is their value in MG in reality. Riders like these are never going to win any stage race with at least one stage other than flat, while riders like Reus, Kangert, Boom or Koren at least have some chance and so their value is in my opinion surely higher than the value of riders only for 'one stage' like Sergent or especially Ford. I believe it would be great, if the TT specialistion part of calculation could take more into the account MO/HIL of riders.
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 15:10
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I know. But it sill annoys me. I didn't ask you to change it
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 15:26
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World Champion
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Roman wrote:
@SotD I believe Bewley is exactly where he should be in rankings of riders, I really have to disagree with your opinion. He needs to deliver me way more podium results than GC riders, because they have way more oppurtunities to score in stage races - if Bewley fails in one stage of a classic, he won't gain almost anything from that race, that is a big difference with riders who are riding GTs. And as you are mentioning the individual standings - he was 4th and 3rd in the last couple of seasons. But that was simply due to a fact that there are way more great stage racers and climbers than riders for cobble classics and sprinters in PT and that allowed him to gain more points than he has his abilites for. But he really is no better rider than Spilak, Schleck, Pluchkin, Madrazo or Hagen IMO.
Yeah, except for the fact that when Bewley crashes out of Paris-Roubaix, he is back in the game for the next cobbled race, while when Spilak, Schleck or Pluchkin crashes on stage 4 of the Tour de France he won't score what he was normally supposed to do. The risk of having a rider such as Bewley, Boonen or Trofimov is WAY smaller than having a rider such as Spilak, simply because they spread out the risk more. Just like when gambling with stocks and other values. If we say that each top rider crashes twice in their season it isn't hard to see who will/could be hit the worst.
Roman wrote:The OVL now looks way better indeed, especially riders like Van Stayen or Impey are now way higher the ranks, exactly where I believe they deserve to be. Only thing that really doesn't look good for me is that Sergent has a better OVL than a rider like Kai Reus, even it really does not make any sense. He is literally worse in everything important except he has one higher TT stat.
| Last name | First name | FL | MO | HIL | TT | STA | RES | REC | COB | SP | ACC | FHT | DH | PRL | OVL | | Sergent | Jesse | 79 | 65 | 69 | 80 | 69 | 74 | 71 | 53 | 61 | 51 | 70 | 59 | 80 | 77,92 | | Reus | Kai | 77 | 71 | 74 | 79 | 76 | 79 | 78 | 67 | 54 | 62 | 81 | 69 | 79 | 77,88 |
From every point of view every manager would rather want Reus in their team than Sergent, especially if they are going to want a similar wage in renewals as I believe OVL is still going to be a biggest factor in the decision how big wage the rider will want. The value of similar riders like Sergent - Durbridge, Yatsevich, Kittel or even Ford is IMO still too high than is their value in MG in reality. Riders like these are never going to win any stage race with at least one stage other than flat, while riders like Reus, Kangert, Boom or Koren at least have some chance and so their value is in my opinion surely higher than the value of riders only for 'one stage' like Sergent or especially Ford. I believe it would be great, if the TT specialistion part of calculation could take more into the account MO/HIL of riders.
But last seasons result will make their wages lower, so isn't that OK? I mean the riders you mention here have 68-72 racedays, which is a lot. So if last seasons results make up for the difference in wages I don't see what's not to like really... A rider such as Ford will have 72 racedays and a wage of 65.000-100.000. Kai Reus will have 68 racedays and a wage of 250.000-300.000. I don't see how that should be a problem really.
Results and the FA market will level out the difference on those types of riders I think. Also it is very difficult to see what the exact difference is between a rider with 79 and 80 will do. In TT's the 80 rider will win 8 times out of 10 over the 79 rider, and with stats such as 71/74 MO/HI it's highly unlikely that the 79 rider will completely outscore the 80TT guy in the long run - Especially not in the PT.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 25-04-2015 15:44
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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SotD wrote:
So, I have taken a look at some riders I would like to reinstate with some other stats, more like what they would have IRL.
Nikias Arndt Current stats:
71 77 74 56 76 75 70 63 71 73 59 63 56
Nikias Arndt Suggested stats:
73 66 71 76 76 75 70 63 77 78 59 71 75
Magnus Cort Current stats:
71 75 73 70 74 73 72 60 54 70 65 64 70
Magnus Cort Suggested stats:
73 65 73 70 75 73 72 67 77 78 67 68 73
Also perhaps give Kwiatkowski 78TT, just to make him look slightly more like he does IRL. ATM his stats doesn't represent how versatile he actually is. I don't want to make him exactly as good as he is IRL though. Also IMO there lacks a good italian climber since some of the best are going down quite a lot. Perhaps make Fabio Aru keep his current stats but make him 4.00 instead of 4.100 would add for some more italian climbing talent.
Another small thing. "Jempy" Drucker has annoyed me for seasons. His name is Jean-Pierre.
Perhaps remove ceased riders aswell, once they become Free Agents? Kristof Goddaert for example.
So after I eyed up Arndt for three years now, you propose a few weeks before the first transfer season in which I can go for him to make him really useless for my team plans????
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 16:00
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World Champion
Posts: 12188
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 2980.00
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cio93 wrote:
SotD wrote:
So, I have taken a look at some riders I would like to reinstate with some other stats, more like what they would have IRL.
Nikias Arndt Current stats:
71 77 74 56 76 75 70 63 71 73 59 63 56
Nikias Arndt Suggested stats:
73 66 71 76 76 75 70 63 77 78 59 71 75
Magnus Cort Current stats:
71 75 73 70 74 73 72 60 54 70 65 64 70
Magnus Cort Suggested stats:
73 65 73 70 75 73 72 67 77 78 67 68 73
Also perhaps give Kwiatkowski 78TT, just to make him look slightly more like he does IRL. ATM his stats doesn't represent how versatile he actually is. I don't want to make him exactly as good as he is IRL though. Also IMO there lacks a good italian climber since some of the best are going down quite a lot. Perhaps make Fabio Aru keep his current stats but make him 4.00 instead of 4.100 would add for some more italian climbing talent.
Another small thing. "Jempy" Drucker has annoyed me for seasons. His name is Jean-Pierre.
Perhaps remove ceased riders aswell, once they become Free Agents? Kristof Goddaert for example.
So after I eyed up Arndt for three years now, you propose a few weeks before the first transfer season in which I can go for him to make him really useless for my team plans????
My goals are always to make your team as useless as possible
At some point you might be able to buy Vasyliv 
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| cio93 |
Posted on 25-04-2015 16:03
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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Also I am slightly surprised to see Felline having an average now that puts him on the same amount of race days as Ciolek...
And I wonder how he can have an overall of 77,83 when his only stat above 77 is acceleration on 78.
Another small thing: who decided to say "overall" instead of "average" now, or is that directly related to that stat now being able to be higher than any single stat?
To put this some more into perspective: Felline has only 3 race days more than van Stayen, with only +1 hill going into his favour. And I don't particularly think it's van Stayen having too many RD here.
Edited by cio93 on 25-04-2015 16:15
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| Smowz |
Posted on 25-04-2015 16:03
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Team Leader
Posts: 6479
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v3 looks better still certainly. Thanks for all the hard work behind the scenes. Guys like Claeys and Di Maggio still in right ball park as well as some of those all round strongsters well portioned.
The chrono boys perhaps a bit higher perhaps Roman's suggestion is worth a look.
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| Heine |
Posted on 25-04-2015 16:23
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4116
Joined: 08-04-2007
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cio93 wrote:
So after I eyed up Arndt for three years now, you propose a few weeks before the first transfer season in which I can go for him to make him really useless for my team plans????
You might not be the only one eyeing up Arndt ;-) He fits well into my team when I hope to aquire 4-5 more Germans/Austrians
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-04-2015 16:51
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
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If you're still checking the wrong names, well, then De Negri's surname is De Negri not DI NEGRI and Caruso's name is Giampaolo not Gianpaolo. Malori's name is Adriano not Adrian.
Also some names/surnames are clearly not italian, lol. Might be just me but it's annoying, really, although not worth a change as they're fantasy riders/regens.
Also is it just me or stats like time trial and flat (so the ones of tt specialists or flat domestiques) weigh more than the others? May just be my impression though, feel free to prove me wrong.
Edited by matt17br on 25-04-2015 16:53
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| cio93 |
Posted on 25-04-2015 17:03
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
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Heine wrote:
cio93 wrote:
So after I eyed up Arndt for three years now, you propose a few weeks before the first transfer season in which I can go for him to make him really useless for my team plans????
You might not be the only one eyeing up Arndt ;-) He fits well into my team when I hope to aquire 4-5 more Germans/Austrians
We always sorted out these sort of situations well and with a positive result for both sides so far
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| fintas |
Posted on 25-04-2015 18:28
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2602
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cio93 wrote:
Heine wrote:
cio93 wrote:
So after I eyed up Arndt for three years now, you propose a few weeks before the first transfer season in which I can go for him to make him really useless for my team plans????
You might not be the only one eyeing up Arndt ;-) He fits well into my team when I hope to aquire 4-5 more Germans/Austrians
We always sorted out these sort of situations well and with a positive result for both sides so far
you guys are not alone in that figth
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| viking90 |
Posted on 26-04-2015 10:14
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Always fun when the db comes out 
There are definitely some interesting scandinavians available,
especially since Team B&O is out. |
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 26-04-2015 10:25
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So I had a look into the db, first of all I liked the old AVG more, but maybe that is just because I got used to how the AVG number reflected a riders ability. So now that we are going OV, a few things that looks strange to me
*I think the OV should never be higher than the highest stat of a rider (I have this with 7 riders in my team), this seems to be mostly a problem with hill/mountain riders, two examples:
Rovny OV 76.08
| 72 | 63 | 76 | 63 | 75 | 73 | 72 | 60 | 69 | 73 | 75 | 64 | 63 |
Belkov OV 76.32
| 67 | 76 | 71 | 72 | 71 | 75 | 74 | 68 | 57 | 62 | 58 | 69 | 72 |
Also it feels like the fighter stat should be downgraded a little bit in the formula
Edited by OlegTinkov on 26-04-2015 10:29
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| ggDonovan |
Posted on 26-04-2015 11:27
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OlegTinkov wrote:
So I had a look into the db, first of all I liked the old AVG more, but maybe that is just because I got used to how the AVG number reflected a riders ability. So now that we are going OV, a few things that looks strange to me
Well, this is because the scale is different. The stats use a scale from 50-85 and the rating, 87.49 - 51.46.
This is because there are various exponential calcs that I find difficult to convert back to the same base as the stats and I'm using an ad hoc approach. There is no problem to switch to a scale base in a 100 or any number. The thing you have to take into account is that there isn't an equal relationship between a stat and the overall.
OlegTinkov wrote:
Also it feels like the fighter stat should be downgraded a little bit in the formula
Figther stats has a tiny tiny effect. I tried downgrading Ignatiev FI rating from 85 to 75 and the overall was just affected for not even a hundredth (0,007150857). I did the same from Polito ("worst" rider with 85 FI so has more prevalence) and the overall was 0,062992186 points less.
Edited by ggDonovan on 26-04-2015 11:28
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| cio93 |
Posted on 26-04-2015 22:19
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World Champion
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Is there a chance for the "training eligible" column to be added again for the "final" DB after it seems to have been removed?
It's not a big deal to just switch between the 2014 and the 2015 DB for the few riders that will be relevant to each team in that regard, but it would be nice to have all relevant info in one.
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