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2016 Planning: Crash Frequency
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 21-11-2015 15:12
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Team Leader
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Ollfardh wrote:
Don't classics have a higher crash chance already? I see no need to increase it even further.
Cobblestones nd rain increase crash frequency, I'm not sure if classics specifically do though.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 14:51
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| knockout |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:12
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Grand Tour Champion
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I think all races should be treated equally so I'm very much against the " Lower in stage races, higher in classics" option.
Crashes are part of the game. Noone likes them but yet they should be in there. I have no idea what percentage should be used but i guess something between 35 and 100 percent could be good.
Mainly, because i dont want a crash festival but i feel a few crashes here and there should be in. Why? Because some randomness is good for the game. Otherwise, we could simply delete the sometimes poor AI our of the game as well by making polls deciding who wins each race.
For the poll, i clicked the "always 100% option" but it can be seen just as much as a vote for a lower percentage as long as it is the same percentage throughout all races.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:54
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Classics Specialist
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Can I suggest no matter the crash frequency that if a teams chances of achieve a goal race are ruined by a crash then the goals is defaulted as bad luck in real life would possibly be seen different by the sponsors then just not been good enough |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:56
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World Champion
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I think having few crashes is best for everyone. Having crashes definitely adds drama, but if you are on the receiving end of a crash it really sucks, especially if it was a season goal. Riders have a set amount of race days in the game so if they crash out on the first stage of a GT that is it. Wasted days. In real life, there is no limit so a rider can still race as many times as he wants (health permitting, but theres no actual restriction)
But as others have said, whatever we decide on, it should be the same throughout all races.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:59
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World Champion
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I just don't like the classics get more crashes and stage races don't. If you want to make stuff luck-based, it should be equal to all. Teams focussing on stage races will have a higher chance of a normal race and thus good results, while teams specialised in classics will have a higher chance of a crash and a bad result.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 21-11-2015 18:19
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Tour de France Champion
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0% i don't like. Crashes should be there, it's always been part of the game so they should remain.
Somehwere between 0% and 100% would get my vote. Crashes should be a thing, as they've always been, but you don't want them to be deciding too much or too frequent. As the actual racing is the one part of the game Managers have the least control over we need to keep the racing as predictable as possible to reward that Planning work Managers can do.
100% is normal setting in the game so you assume that would be the best setting to use, who are we to argue with Cyanides logic 
I cannot agree to over 100% because in PCM15 it gets ridiculous really quickly and over 200% you might as well just roll a dice to decide the races.
I also cannot agree to having different values for Classics and Stage Races. Higher in one just disadvantages a team that is focusing on Classics over Stage Races and will just tip the game even further in favor of the stage racers. They MUST be the same for the sake of fairness.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 21-11-2015 21:54
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Small Tour Specialist
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matt17br wrote:
@DD, not like anyone would remember about changing it for each race day
It's a nice idea though, I like the scale as well.
Hehe, nice misunderstanding. I meant the total amount of RD the race costs. So the corresponding crash percentage would be for the entire race. Not every day a different percentage. Edited it to make it more clear.
But a majority seems to want a fixed crash percentage for every race, so guess we'll go with that.
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 21-11-2015 22:05
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Grand Tour Specialist
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I think it should be equal across the board to make it fair for those in more classics than others. I also think we should try and make racing as realistic as possible. After all crashes are a major part of cycling and therefore I think 100% would be most accurate, for more realism. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-11-2015 22:41
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Just to explain my logic regarding the idea of a difference in stage races and classics. You crash in a stage race and you could be losing anything from 4-21 race days worth of value. Crash in a classic and you are only losing 2 race days of value. So for the sake of fun in the game, it would be good to have a low crash % for stage race in particular.
Quite happy for a constant value for all races though, with this thread having identified this as a consensus (26 always votes at the moment, compared to 13 different) - and it will certainly make things easier for reporters to do it that way.
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 00:13
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Classics Specialist
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Personally I don't see the problem with adding in more crashes, it already feels like this season has seen less than previous seasons and I think that if we made the percentage less then it would hit the teams that got caught worse than if we added more in as then there's more chance of it getting round to everyone.
Yeah it's frustrating when one of your riders crashes but it's something that's part of cycling and I think it would be more frustrating to see my rider go down on a crash percentage of 60 than on a crash percentage of 160 as I know on 160 it's not going to be only me effected and that it will be more likely to even out throughout the season.
Surely if we lower it and you get caught by a crash that will seem worse due to them being infrequent and costing you more if the bad luck of getting caught in one isn't something that will necessarily catch out the guys you are fighting against in the rankings because we've lowered the percentage.
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| Smowz |
Posted on 22-11-2015 07:58
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I don't really understand why people have not reasoned that crashes in a classic is far less of an effect than a rider crashing in a key stage race - but there we go.
Cancellara for example crashed in Paris Roubaix a year or two ago, like a trojan he carried on with an okay result and had a great season. But if say Alarcon had crashed out of one of the GT's he had done then it would have devestated his season.
This is where MG differs from real life - if a great rider crashes in classics season it is pretty much as bad as a rider crashing from a GT. The reason - injuries. Riders don't get injured in the MG beyond the race they are in. Therefore skewing things towards riders crashing in stage races.
I still think there should be some risk of a crash in a stage race - this is part of the risk-reward strategy of entering a Pluichkin like schedule. If he had crashed in one GT this year - Metinvest would likely have finished far further down. If he had crashed in both they may have relegated.
Likewise I do think there should be risk of crashes happening in all races. I hate crashes in real life because of the risk to injury and lets be honest life. Kris Boeckmans comes to mind this year - I was spamming the internet for hours after fearing another horrible cycle moment. The only loss we get is points and Smowz calling GT avoiders chickens. SotD followed Chicken strategy with Spilak to win the PTour 
Anyway I have gone for lower in stage races and higher in classics. But I am fine with 100% all round - though I do have a morbid curiousity of 300%
That all said - I don't know how PCM works out crashes, it very unsatisfying non graphic of crashes this year was rubbish. I do like the old carnage of bikes scattered everywhere and riders gingerly picking themselves up and frantically chasing back on. I do get it is annoying the way a whole team drops back also. But I think that this is part of the charm of the ManGame, the random splits and crashes add to the rich tapestry.
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| SotD |
Posted on 22-11-2015 08:57
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Like Smowz say. If there is an equal chance of crashing in a GT, than in one day races/shorter races, then the chances are that people will chicken out.
That was my reasons for leaving Spilak out of long races. I simply didn't want to risk that half of his racedays would wash down the drain. Had he ridden the Tour and abandoned in stage 4, then I would have been 5th overall. If he would have abandoned any other race he rode this season I would have been 3rd atleast.
So for me it was an obvious choice. I wasn't ready to take the gamble. Metinvest was, and they scored big because of that, but looking at my past bad luck including Contador, Ricco, Fothen, Ardila and Ratiy all crashing out or getting injured in Grand Tours, I felt the risk was not worth the gamble.
Now I have won the PT, and I really want to take those risks again, but if the chance is as big in a single GT stage as it is in a classic race, then I would seriously consider making the chicken version again - Atleast to some extend.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 22-11-2015 09:24
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50% for stage races and 100% for classics would be my prefered choice, i agree with stage racing being much more risky than 2 RDs worth classics, so that should be seen in lower crash risk. As others said, i would be doomed if Pluchkin crashed out of the GTs...
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| Mhaley45 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 11:06
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Protected Rider
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I vote for enjoyment of the game over realism. I would set the bar low for crashes. On the debate of different values for 1 day vs stage races I see both sides have valid points.
One point not made yet about this question is the impact on a team's goals. If you have a win or top 5 goal for a race a crash would be very bad for your whole season. My 1 day classic race (with a win goal) could be as important to my season as top GT finish for another team's season.
For that reason I lean towards making the crash percentage the same for all races and I would set it low 25-35%.
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| the_hoyle |
Posted on 22-11-2015 11:22
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Grand Tour Champion
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I've voted for default as I think it is the best option but I won't mind if it was set as lower for GCs and higher for Classics
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 22-11-2015 11:31
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Tour de France Champion
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I'm very much against the idea of getting rid of crashes altogether, as some have suggested in this thread.
I do understand their arguments / logic, but personally I enjoy the added drama (and realism) that crashes bring to the game. It's not fair, it's horrible to be on the receiving end, but it's all part of cycling, and I feel it deserves to play a part in the game too.
So, the question is: How much a part should it play? In my opinion - and I'm probably alone in thinking this - we had too few crashes this season. It didn't bother me, but on the other hand, I wouldn't mind if it was raised a little bit, e.g. to 105 percent.
I'm not too sure about the Stage Races / Classics differentation. I believe I voted for it, but I've backtracked after reading through the arguments. |
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| Bjartne |
Posted on 22-11-2015 12:12
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Classics Specialist
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If we put the value lower, the impact on the crash will be much bigger for the rider/team affected, as you'll just be extremely unlucky compared to the others. The effect of the crash will be horrible for you then.
But if we keep it at 100% or even raise it a bit as CrueTrue mentioned, it will even out over time, cause even if you crash in a race, you can be quite sure of being on the receiving end at a later occasion.
Besides, nothing adds drama as much as crashes do. Both in PCM and IRL. It's a huge part of cycling, and should not be taken away from the MG in my opinion. |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 13:34
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I'm of the view that we should keep it at around the natural level, in all kinds of races. Yes, crashes are unfortunate - but that's part of real life. Either we completely get rid of them, which would be unrealistic in my opinion, or we keep them as they have been for the past few seasons. And as Bjartne says, if you make crash frequency lower then those who crash will be even worse off. |
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 22-11-2015 17:23
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I'm, always, on the same team as rjc_43: Keep the percentages the same for one day or stage races.
I also think it is wise to let it be 100%, I - as many others - have been affected by crashes or flat tires in the past, while other managers maybe have been lucky up until now, which is in my opinion a fun/not so fun factor in the ManGame.
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| Margh Norway |
Posted on 22-11-2015 17:51
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Sprinter
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Voted for "Always higher" for a few reasons:
-the option to raise the crash frequency made the stages more fun to play when it was implemented. Not sure if I remember it correctly... hmm... set it to 130 or 160... damned its been a while when Iplayed PCM the last time
-it is more realistic. At Tour of America there was no abondoning! 21 stages and every rider finished the race!
-guess more crashes can encourage to more rpg, more writing.
I'm not a diligent writer myself, but it's more likely I make an entry called "X would have been the winner if he wasn't involved in a crash caused by stupid Y of ******* Team Z" than something like "well,... X finished 15th... at least he stayed healthy"
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