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2016 Planning: General Ideas
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| Crommy |
Posted on 21-11-2015 15:59
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
I'm hoping some of the bigger races in each division could have a "split report" like we had in EPIC (Milan - San Remo here: https://pcmdaily.c...ost_834738 )
It's fun because people can actually start commenting halfway the race already, and it really builds up the excitement!
So, we used to do live reports for some of the bigger races, where the race would be split up over about 20 posts.
Look here for examples:
https://pcmdaily.c...ad_id=9734
https://pcmdaily.c...ad_id=2544
https://pcmdaily.c...ad_id=2445
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| Margh Norway |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:44
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Sprinter
Posts: 1507
Joined: 23-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Wanna introduce an idea that may be helpful in pre season race planning.
Last season imo went great thanks to SN and the guys helping with the planning stuff plus the awesome work of the race reporting members.
But I got the impression that there are two things might be important to improve:
1. In a few painful cases reports had to be rewritten due to mistakes in the stage files. (time gaps set to one, wrong mountain value,...)
2. Managers (me included) were sometimes surprised by an almost unpredictable mountain value set by the game or the stage maker.
A solution can be:
Releasing the cds-files of any stage in pre-season (eg via dropbox download).
All important informations are stored in this file (just 20 to 25 kb in size), which can be opened easily with the stage viewer.
It will look like this (example: Japan Cup)
The stage viewer is just 10 MB in size and works without PCM, so you don't need to buy the game to work with this tool. 
Advantages:
- this way a manager can decide by himself if he wants to take the few extra minutes to check the stage data.
- there's a chance for everyone to see if there were made mistakes (eg time gap set to 1) and to minimize the chances of reports 'written in vain'
- no reason for post race whining like "...if I just have known mountain value would be so important... mimimi..." 
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| Roman |
Posted on 22-11-2015 02:10
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4386
Joined: 29-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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@SotD I actually like your idea, and absolutely agree with you that we could have more options to sign these types of riders, but still would suggest to change the rule around stagiares in an another way. I think stagiares could be allowed to race all year long, but you could use max half of total race days of that particular rider maximum limit.
In my opinion a rider signed under stagiare rule could be max U25 year old and would have to be unmaxed - the main aim for stagiares would still be to fill the field for Avenir, but the addition could be to actually develop more talents via that way, and to field full 8-riders-per-team squads for all races in-game. We could then raise the minimum number of full-time contracted riders per PT team to 22, but at least 24 riders in total with the need to field a full team in all races, so possibly the need would be to have even more riders in your team if you want your leader/s not taking part in any race of Tirreno/Nice/Duche trio. And well after all in reality PT teams are bigger than PCT teams, so we could reflect that a little bit in MG too - even through PCT teams still should have allowed to sign up to 30 riders, even through it probably would not be the smartest tactic! Similarly I would like to see the minimum number of riders per CT team increased to 16, as I think it would not hurt to have full 8 riders-per-team in all races, especially if CT teams have two races clashing on the same date.
This may be/or not helped to achieve by a small increase of wage caps for CT/PT. Actually I can imagine CT teams having a little bit higher wage caps than they currently have, I think CT teams could do with a little bit higher quality of their best riders - one more rider of quality of König for every team surely would not be a problem and it would give CT teams more chances to actually score decent points in C1 races, but would not increased these chances by too much. My idea after these suggestions would be something like 1.4M for CT, 2.5M for PCT and 3.6M cap for PT teams.
@Margh Norway Superb idea!
More to come from me.
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 02:24
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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@Roman, I really like that idea of increasing the rider limit to make sure teams can field full squads for race clashes, definitely sounds like a good one to me and increasing the wage cap slightly to cover this is another thing I like.
I hope this gets implemented, but if it does then I'd like to know for certain before renewals because as a relegating team it would effect my strategy in them.
Although I do wonder if that would make it slightly harder for newly promoting teams to get up to the pace of their new division or not but I guess that is something that can only be answered by trying it.
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 03:50
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Amadou Bakari 3km All SP and ACC Set To 50 Cobbled Challenge 
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 22-11-2015 06:07
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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@Margh Norway: just going to raise the question of time (if I remember right, last season there were some problems with people wanting to spend a lot lot of time on race planning and had trouble making the deadline) won't this just increase the problem? (Of course this could be stopped by just having the screenshot but that is time consuming
Also what about people who don't understand what it means or only have a vague idea about what these stats means and the effect different numbers have? Like Japan cup, 0.19 uphill sprint and 0.4 mountain, does this mean that the sprint finish hill stat is worth 19% of sprint stat, or sprint stat is worth 81% and hill is worth 19%? The same with mountain on 0.4. (Of course all these could be clarified but I've spent time stage making and still don't really know, so I assume others won't )
I'm happy for these ideas to be proven wrong as I like the idea, but I'm just putting this out there.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Smowz |
Posted on 22-11-2015 07:42
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Team Leader
Posts: 6479
Joined: 09-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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As I just mentioned in sprint bonification thread. I would like to see the majority of chrono's moved to earlier parts of races. GT's are the exception of course.
Margh's idea of being able to get more detailed information about races is also fantastic in my opinion.
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| SotD |
Posted on 22-11-2015 08:44
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World Champion
Posts: 12187
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Roman wrote:
@SotD I actually like your idea, and absolutely agree with you that we could have more options to sign these types of riders, but still would suggest to change the rule around stagiares in an another way. I think stagiares could be allowed to race all year long, but you could use max half of total race days of that particular rider maximum limit.
In my opinion a rider signed under stagiare rule could be max U25 year old and would have to be unmaxed - the main aim for stagiares would still be to fill the field for Avenir, but the addition could be to actually develop more talents via that way, and to field full 8-riders-per-team squads for all races in-game. We could then raise the minimum number of full-time contracted riders per PT team to 22, but at least 24 riders in total with the need to field a full team in all races, so possibly the need would be to have even more riders in your team if you want your leader/s not taking part in any race of Tirreno/Nice/Duche trio. And well after all in reality PT teams are bigger than PCT teams, so we could reflect that a little bit in MG too - even through PCT teams still should have allowed to sign up to 30 riders, even through it probably would not be the smartest tactic! Similarly I would like to see the minimum number of riders per CT team increased to 16, as I think it would not hurt to have full 8 riders-per-team in all races, especially if CT teams have two races clashing on the same date.
This may be/or not helped to achieve by a small increase of wage caps for CT/PT. Actually I can imagine CT teams having a little bit higher wage caps than they currently have, I think CT teams could do with a little bit higher quality of their best riders - one more rider of quality of König for every team surely would not be a problem and it would give CT teams more chances to actually score decent points in C1 races, but would not increased these chances by too much. My idea after these suggestions would be something like 1.4M for CT, 2.5M for PCT and 3.6M cap for PT teams.
@Margh Norway Superb idea!
More to come from me.
I don't necessarily think that we need more money to cover the problem. At the moment we just use a tactical perspective to chose whether or not we want to field 8 riders to a race, and I kinda like that approach. I want as many riders possible to field in a race, but I don't want a stagiare fucking up my chances to send the perfect rider into breakaways just to have 8 riders in Paris-Nice. I would much rather have 6 and then knowing that everyone of those 6 could win the stage if they got away.
I think something that could be interesting in terms of stagiares was to make a development team. Festina U23 or whatever. Then they are assigned there, and ride fictive races prior to the august/september month they are implemented into the first team. But while they were riding the U23 team they would gather experience if you paid a certain amount of money into their development.
It could be something like:
Star Coach: 150.000€ pr. rider
- The Star Coach makes sure that every rider in your Development team get's leveled up.
Great Coach: 70.000€ pr. rider
- The Great Coach makes sure that your Development riders reach an experience level from where it is possible to level them up.
Mediocre Coach: 50.000€ pr. rider
- The Mediocre Coach let's half your Development riders reach an experience level from where it is possible to level them up. (Atleast 2 stagiares is needed)
That way you could have a bit of fun with those stagiare riders, while you don't necessarily have to put them into a lot of races throughout the entire season.
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| Smowz |
Posted on 22-11-2015 09:01
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Team Leader
Posts: 6479
Joined: 09-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I wonder whether with stags, whether we could run some sort of wildcard system in C2 races or even C2HC races in order to ensure oppurtunities for more managers to mix across to divisions.
Of course it is difficult to budget for a whole team of stags from one squad so we would likely have to create a few composite teams such as Red Festina or Bpost-Aegon, Oz-Vesuvio or Iron Curtain unites. Or alternatively just have nation teams built up out of existing stags regardless of teams - like GB U23, France U23?
Would have been really fun to see my stags race in a few races earlier in the season as a curiousity?
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 22-11-2015 11:27
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm open to the idea of some kind of mini U23 league for those teams with stagiares. They can fill an 8 man team post transfers with unsigned riders, and compete in some low maintenance races with minimal reports. So long as someone were to volunteer to organise it, and it does not hinder progress of the main season.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea that development of a stagiare should be made 'easier' than that of a contracted rider. Although perhaps it is ok as these are riders not deemed good enough to be signed properly, and may struggle to develop otherwise.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 00:05
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| the_hoyle |
Posted on 22-11-2015 11:47
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7651
Joined: 28-05-2009
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Just to chip in with some thoughts of my own:
- I think that of a rider is released, and the manager wants him back, he should have to offer at least a certain percentage less than what the rider was earning previously. I don't think it should be banned, as it useful to get more realistic stats for some riders (e.g. Gallopin in my case)
- Use of Twitter should up to the manager. Updates in HQ shouldn't be replaced with twitter use.
- U23 /stagaire squads would be welcomed in C2 races, especially when the start list is so small to begin with. Using an Country squad (e.g. France U23, GBR U23 etc) could be a nice alternative imo
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| SotD |
Posted on 22-11-2015 12:48
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World Champion
Posts: 12187
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Is it possible to remove daily form? If so, I think it should be considered - Or atleast lowered. Riders performing +5 while a direct competitor performing -5 could be devastating, and seems to be the reason why some poor results has happened.
I still think some randomness should be possible, but I feel that +5 is worth more for lesser riders, while the big guns are more affected with -5, because they are generally fighting for more points. So there is a huge points difference between getting 2nd in a classic and getting 9th because of poor form, while a rider that would normally be 15th is less hit by a poor result, but then again could benefit way more for a great form, by ending up 6th or so.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 22-11-2015 12:52
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
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I would be completely against SotD's suggestion, this is just part of cycling.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| SotD |
Posted on 22-11-2015 12:53
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World Champion
Posts: 12187
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Ollfardh wrote:
I would be completely against SotD's suggestion, this is just part of cycling.
So are crashing and peaking
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-11-2015 12:56
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Don't know if this would be possible or something but would be nice to have some rankings throughout the season. For example now we have the PT ranking, PCT and CT.
It would be cool to have CQ-sort of ranking, including all cyclist, or a victory ranking (like in PCM).
But that's just an idea, not considering the logistics. It's up to those who run this game to decide if that's at all possible. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 22-11-2015 13:00
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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1. It's not possible to remove daily form.
2. Leaders dont receive - 5. They can receive up to - 3 and +3.
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| jph27 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 13:12
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Team Leader
Posts: 7339
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Reading through so far, I'd make the following points:
- You should be able to resign riders you release. Firstly due to the possibility of a stat increase, and secondly because you may be releasing a rider to avoid a renewals fine so will later re-sign them when you have the cap space. Also, looking just at my own team as an example I have riders like Racault who are unlikely to be wanted by anyone else, who I might want to bring back later in transfers depending on who I sign - so then it makes no sense for me to renew them, but if I wish to re-sign them once I have a clearer picture of what I need, why shouldn't I try to?
- Split reports would be nice, but ultimately make the season last longer. I understand the positives, but I don't think it's necessary to have them.
- I like SotD's idea about stagiare progression, and Roman's follow-up to it. There were riders I would have signed this season as stagiares, but didn't, because I simply couldn't get them enough xp to make it worthwhile.
- I don't think we should make it so you have to put out full teams in every race. If that was to become the case, then minimum squad sizes would have to be increased and so would the wage caps. I also don't think that PT and CT should increase, and PCT not, as it just makes life more difficult for PCT teams when they are promoted, as the gap is even wider in quality.
- On talents, I don't think there's any need to cap them. If they're good enough to be added with a potential that puts them over 80 - which the likes of Benoot and Gaviria certainly are, for example - then they ought to be. Sure, no more Dombrowski's or Zmorka's, but the Lecuisinier's and Wellens' are about right in my opinion. Plus, a 79 sprinter is far weaker than a 79 cobbler or puncheur.
- Margh's idea is a great one - but I'd prefer it if that information was put in the stage profiles thread. This is a personal thing (because I can't download the stage viewer  ) but I think it's only fair that everyone has access to the same information.
- Daily form would be good to be removed if it could be - especially if we go forward with the monthly form idea. A bit of randomness is fine, but in TTs for example, it is simply too random and almost punishes teams that focus on them. |
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| Roman |
Posted on 22-11-2015 13:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4386
Joined: 29-05-2007
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@SotD I like daily form. I think it is nice to have an extra random thing in-game. It happens in real cycling as well that you have a good or bad day, so why not in PCM? I think the unpredictability like that is a great thing to have.
On the other way a development team made from stagiares could possibly be an interesting thing to have. We have quite a lot of free spaces in C2/C2HC races, so maybe U23/U25 teams of stagiares could possibly take a place in these races.
@jph I don't really think it would make a life for PCT teams more difficult. PCT teams have to sign still 20 riders per team. If they promote to PT, they need to sign mainly a few extra team leaders already. What is the problem to then give PT/CT teams a little bit extra money to sign these couple of extra 50k riders? It would take out a little bit of budget money from teams as well. I would even say it would help PCT teams a little bit, because they would have a little bit more extra money available when promoting. On the other way it would make life easier for CT teams when promoting too, they would not have the absolute need for a total revamp of the need like they have now, that need would be a little bit lower.
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| dev4ever |
Posted on 22-11-2015 14:21
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2282
Joined: 13-03-2011
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matt17br wrote:
1. It's not possible to remove daily form.
2. Leaders dont receive - 5. They can receive up to - 3 and +3.
Since when can't leaders receive +5 ?
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 22-11-2015 14:31
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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dev4ever wrote:
matt17br wrote:
1. It's not possible to remove daily form.
2. Leaders dont receive - 5. They can receive up to - 3 and +3.
Since when can't leaders receive +5 ?
Since forever. But not that difference of 6 points is small.
Still i am rather against getting rid of daily form. I hate it, but it is main part of the game. 
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