I just got into my hands PCM12 a couple of weeks ago, so I am giving a shot at stage making here too. I have done PCM09 stages in the past so the adaptation process could be big.
I will start with a Variant of the Vuelta a Asturias to begin learning the new editor. Suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Well, without even looking at the stages, I can already say it's a good start - as you said, a Vuelta a Asturias variant, less important race, to learn things is good to begin with. Some people already go out of the "starting house" with GT variants, which require a lot of time and motivation - and then usually, either that is not completed or the stages come out pretty bad. So it's great that you're learning with smaller races
Anyway, onto the stages themselves: they look good, but of course there's room for improvement One thing I noticed is that several cities have high walls on their 'border' (sort like this, but in flatter roads). That is rather simple to fix. Just untick the "snap objects to landscape" button and move the height of the city points until they are all matched. In the case of these cities, that will mean that the city point will be "inside" the land - but that's not a problem. When you rebuild the city, the land next to it will adapt itself so that the city looks as you've set. Just pay attention to how the land adapts itself, sometimes the fix creates a worse problem You can also find some useful info about cities like this in this thread.
I believe you've already got this one, but when creating sea, create just to as far as to the point where you can't see anything because of the fog. This way the stage is lighter, lags much less in game, etc. You can see the fog in the editor with Ctrl + F.
Another thing which I'd suggest you is to use less road points. It makes it easier and quicker for you when creating the stage, makes it easier to fix slopes in the case of the climbs, makes roads smoother and in my experience makes the gameplay better. I find there's no need to follow every single turn of the .gpx file when creating the stage, some can be simply ignored and that's it. It does make stages slightly shorter than they should be, yes, but what I've noticed is that the different in the stage length is nearly 0 even when you "cut out" several points. To give you some examples from the first climb of stage 1 of points I'd have left out:
On the two points in the center, you could delete them both and then make a point in the middle of them - the curve in the road created by the game will be bigger and smoother, and the result will be nearly the same in terms of distance, but with better gameplay and easier to fix slopes.
Another thing I've noticed is that you've used some wider roads for a while in the beginning of the first stage, which I also like I especially think wide roads should be used on flat terrain, on the beginning of stages (easier for human players to position his riders) and on the end of stages where a sprint is expected. Makes the gameplay much better imo
And that's about it! Keep practicing and you'll only get better
Ps.: I guess you have seen this, but in the TT the borders after the starthouse keep going straight while the road turns right. When you don't have much space for such a TT start, you can use the TT start of type "D", which has borders only for a few meters Edited by lluuiiggii on 06-02-2013 01:24
lluuiiggii wrote:
Well, without even looking at the stages, I can already say it's a good start - as you said, a Vuelta a Asturias variant, less important race, to learn things is good to begin with. Some people already go out of the "starting house" with GT variants, which require a lot of time and motivation - and then usually, either that is not completed or the stages come out pretty bad. So it's great that you're learning with smaller races
I did the same thing when I started doing stages for PCM09. Now when I look at the stages I did at the beginning I think they are embarrassing. Also, apart than the fact that I am from Asturias and therefore more motivated to do stages there, it gives you a nice variety of terrains to play with.
lluuiiggii wrote:
Anyway, onto the stages themselves: they look good, but of course there's room for improvement One thing I noticed is that several cities have high walls on their 'border' (sort like this, but in flatter roads). That is rather simple to fix. Just untick the "snap objects to landscape" button and move the height of the city points until they are all matched. In the case of these cities, that will mean that the city point will be "inside" the land - but that's not a problem. When you rebuild the city, the land next to it will adapt itself so that the city looks as you've set. Just pay attention to how the land adapts itself, sometimes the fix creates a worse problem You can also find some useful info about cities like this in this thread.
There's a lot of useful info in that thread, hadn't realized it was there. Also, I hadn't seen the "snap objects to landscape", so I will give it a shot this evening. I found out that the cities are probably the trickiest part of the editor.
lluuiiggii wrote:
I believe you've already got this one, but when creating sea, create just to as far as to the point where you can't see anything because of the fog. This way the stage is lighter, lags much less in game, etc. You can see the fog in the editor with Ctrl + F.
I only found this after my computer almost freeze after I put too much sea in the first stage. I didn't know about the Ctrl + F though. What bothers me a bit is the interaction between a river and the sea when they meet. It is an ugly thing to see...
lluuiiggii wrote:
Another thing which I'd suggest you is to use less road points. It makes it easier and quicker for you when creating the stage, makes it easier to fix slopes in the case of the climbs, makes roads smoother and in my experience makes the gameplay better. I find there's no need to follow every single turn of the .gpx file when creating the stage, some can be simply ignored and that's it. It does make stages slightly shorter than they should be, yes, but what I've noticed is that the different in the stage length is nearly 0 even when you "cut out" several points. To give you some examples from the first climb of stage 1 of points I'd have left out:
On the two points in the center, you could delete them both and then make a point in the middle of them - the curve in the road created by the game will be bigger and smoother, and the result will be nearly the same in terms of distance, but with better gameplay and easier to fix slopes.
Yes, probably I should take less road points. About the fixing of slopes, inspired by your "Slope Corrector", I have programmed a small python script that modifies the XML containing the roads. It takes a file where you input the distances and slopes you want for the route and applies them to the XML. Therefore, the slope correction took me just 5 minutes.
The only thing that is bothering me is that apart from the changes in the "Z" axis I also will need to work out the math to modify the tangents of the points. Without changing the tangents you get weird data, like the second climb in the first stage that has a maximum slope of 15%. It is probably a tiny part, as you barely notice it while playing, but it gives you the wrong number.
I will distribute the script once it is finished if anyone is interested. However, it will take a bit of knowledge of Python to work with it.
lluuiiggii wrote:
Another thing I've noticed is that you've used some wider roads for a while in the beginning of the first stage, which I also like I especially think wide roads should be used on flat terrain, on the beginning of stages (easier for human players to position his riders) and on the end of stages where a sprint is expected. Makes the gameplay much better imo
And that's about it! Keep practicing and you'll only get better
Ps.: I guess you have seen this, but in the TT the borders after the starthouse keep going straight while the road turns right. When you don't have much space for such a TT start, you can use the TT start of type "D", which has borders only for a few meters
I thought there had to be a fix for the TT start...
Thanks a lot for your comments, greatly appreciate it.
I finished the third stage. Again I think the route has way too many points, I will try to correct that for future stages. Other than that, the stage is probably way too hard for the Vuelta a Asturias but it is curious that I just read that they intend to make the queen stage finish in Pola de Lena this year.
I also put a narrow road in some part of the last climb. The race should be very broken by that point, but I don't know how bad it will be for the gameplay. I am open to changing it if someone wants to use the stage with a wider road.
And the last stage of the Vuelta a Asturias is ready. The route is very similar to a finishing stage of the real Vuelta a Asturias since they merged the Subida al Naranco inside the race. The race departs from Oviedo to finish in the hill beside the city. In the route there are climbs with high gradients but that was not a mistake in the correction of the slopes. The climbs to Tenebredo and Grandota both have sections clearly above 20%. Overall, I am quite happy with the slopes as they are. I have also used far less road points and the gameplay seems better as lluuiiggii suggested.
What has bothered me is that there are times when the editor doesn't place a bridge in a crossing between a road and a river. I don't seem to find a way to fit the bridges myself, so the appearance of those is not as good as I would like them to be. Any suggestions on that side appreciated.
I have started to build the coming Volta a Catalunya once they published the race route. The first stage is quiet bumpy but catalogued as flat in the game.
It has been a while since I updated this thread, but I just noticed that the stage database is working again (ok, I know I am late). I have done a few real routes from WT races that I will be sharing, mainly because people playing older versions of the game can do the conversion and not because they still play 2012 .
I do not worry that much about the aesthetics but the profiles should be accurate and the slopes quite smooth. Feel free to add a few more details if you are converting.
I will start by sharing this year's route for the Vuelta al Pais Vasco:
Please mpardo could you upload these great stages with zcts) files somewhere else.
The stage database is NOT working. Something is seriously wrong and when DL it comes down with one unknown file that is corrupt.
It has been so for months and I have tried to get them to fix it.
Your files are corrupted, so do be kind and upload them again !!!!
WITH zcts files, please...
Don't forget them.....
It's not your problem with the pcmdaily databse they just made a mess of it when they updated.
One thing I noticed is that several cities have high walls on their 'border' (sort like 
