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2015 Database v4: New OVL rating
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| cio93 |
Posted on 25-04-2015 01:55
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World Champion
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A little thing I was wondering about...is ID2055 a real cyclist or "only" a long deceased Shah of Iran? 
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| Kami |
Posted on 25-04-2015 01:56
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3485
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Yes, that's a very reasonable point. But it gets complicated. What do you do with Gesink 81/81, Trofimov 78/73, Roche 78/80, Kwiatkowski 77/78, and those types of M/H riders. Or Phinney with a M/T of 82/83.
I'm not really sure as they are pretty delicate riders. Phinney & Trofimov have a tendancy to be 'overpowered', but this doesn't really count for all riders with similar stat compositions.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-04-2015 08:06
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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Again i could use someone to sort the new DB by OVL and then give me a link 
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-04-2015 09:28
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Again i could use someone to sort the new DB by OVL and then give me a link
There you go
https://www.mediafire.com/?s8b05l2ixb...l2ixb4yc6e
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-04-2015 09:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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Grazie, you've earned a sugar cube 
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 25-04-2015 10:14
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2666
Joined: 31-12-2007
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https://www.openo.../download/
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 15:01
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Bot Agent
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| ggDonovan |
Posted on 25-04-2015 10:29
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 897
Joined: 08-08-2011
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Open office / Libre office do the job.
Still, if you want MS products I find this is a good offer:
https://www.micros....260260600
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 10:37
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World Champion
Posts: 12188
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Seeing as most have already mentioned the flaws of the current OVL maths, I'm not going to bother finding more examples of that, despite having some in my team. Instead I'll wait until the next version.
I have found some riders that are now put on Free Agents market, that was originally put into the game with some "wrong" statcombinations. Do you want me to look at those, and give an idea as to how I would put it, or are you not going to bother with that? For example, the biggest danish talent atm, Magnus Cort Nielsen, is put into the game as a climber/GC rider, but his qualities are really to be a puncheur/sprinter.
If you don't feel like going into that matter, I won't use time finding examples of it, but if you do want to tweak now that we have gotten a large pool of free agents, let me know, and I'll use some hours finding tweaks.
EDIT:
Oh, and the arrows next to Flat, Mountan and so on. Can you hide that? I want the list of stats to be named FL, MO, HI, TT and then fit the numbers into that - I have done that in all previous databases, and that gives me a much better overview.
Edited by SotD on 25-04-2015 10:38
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-04-2015 10:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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Not wanting to go too far off-topic here. I already have LibreOffice which does everything i ask great of it and the only problem it ever has is with the MG DB. I'm not going to download a whole new piece of software for the sole purpose of using the MG DB when the one i have does work, just not well.
Let alone paying for MSOffice when the free alternatives are just as good and free
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 25-04-2015 11:33
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
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How about Excel Viewer? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downlo...aspx?id=10
It's free, not too big, and I imagine would allow you to sort tables easily.
SotD wrote:
I have found some riders that are now put on Free Agents market, that was originally put into the game with some "wrong" statcombinations. Do you want me to look at those, and give an idea as to how I would put it, or are you not going to bother with that? For example, the biggest danish talent atm, Magnus Cort Nielsen, is put into the game as a climber/GC rider, but his qualities are really to be a puncheur/sprinter.
If you don't feel like going into that matter, I won't use time finding examples of it, but if you do want to tweak now that we have gotten a large pool of free agents, let me know, and I'll use some hours finding tweaks.
EDIT:
Oh, and the arrows next to Flat, Mountan and so on. Can you hide that? I want the list of stats to be named FL, MO, HI, TT and then fit the numbers into that - I have done that in all previous databases, and that gives me a much better overview.
Happy for them to be suggested. Some of them I won't change, some of them I might. There's no reason why MG has to mirror real life, it clearly doesnt in a lot of aspects, and sometimes it can suit the DB variety to leave them how they are - I won't be changing Rolland, for example. I did update the stats of one former rider of yours yesterday though.
I'm not going to change the formatting of the DB version I release, as it is my preferred format. However it is something that you can easily change in less than a minute yourself by renaming/resizing. The Filter arrows can be turned on and off at Data > Filter.
cio93 wrote:
A little thing I was wondering about...is ID2055 a real cyclist or "only" a long deceased Shah of Iran?
https://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/...derid=5940
Edited by SportingNonsense on 25-04-2015 11:36
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 11:39
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World Champion
Posts: 12188
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Thanks for the guidance to removing the arrows myself. That was exactly what I wanted help with. The rest I can do myself
I'll take a look into some riders then, including Magnus Cort. I do agree that we don't have to make the riders look exactly like their real life counterparts btw. It was more of an issue regarding the likes of Cort, Arndt and such types
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:24
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
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Here is v3 of the database. https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xjws51scnj...3.xls?dl=0
TMM will be glad to hear I ordered it by OVL this time.
No riders changed but incorporated is a new Overall rating.This uses a system devised by ggDonovan, and together we have finetuned it to produce what I think looks like a really good system.
The gist of his it works:
Each rider receives a rating for 6 specialisations (Puncheur, Stage Race, Sprinter, Time Trial, Northern Classics, Climber).
These spec ratings were found by applying appropriate weights to the rider's stats within each spec.
Next there is a Specialisation weighting, which represents the importance of each Spec towards the overall rating.
Finally the overall rating formula which takes the Top 3 Spec ratings for each rider, with again weighting used to apply more primence to the top Spec.
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Gesink is probably one of the more notable risers at the top. He's just too all-round for his own good.
All-round riders are now higher ranked - Bibby is now 88th having been 190th, for example.
Pure time triallists are now lower - although Ford remains pretty stubborn to drop too far down.
Edited by SportingNonsense on 25-04-2015 12:25
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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Something seems off about the Race Days unless i'm missing something there. Also thanks for sorting it 
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:32
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
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Good point. Ive now fixed it, so if you download the file again my crude RD indication has been updated.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:38
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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At first looks this new OVL looks a lot better. It mirrors a lot more what people view as the best riders. I've only really compared my team immediately and it's overall a much better representation of skills (although Grashev jumping from 73.71 to 75.38 is hard to understand. He goes from 7th to 5th best in my squad, now ahead of Izagirre and Sarmiento which as i said i don't quite get. But that's certainly an anomoly amongst the whole squad)
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| Crommy |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:40
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
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Looks much better
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:48
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World Champion
Posts: 12188
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Having looked through my team it looks ROCK SOLID. In terms of riders that should score points they are in almost exactly the order that I would have put them in. Only two riders that pops out are Koretzky, who is slightly higher (1 or 2 places) than where I would put him, and then Ratiy who never scores according to his main stat.
I can't see how this could be done better to be honest. The only thing, but this I have thought about for many seasons, is that some riders (Trofimov, Boonen, Bewley) can score a bit too much, simply because they don't have to ride stageraces to score big. They all get the majority of their points from one day races, and then they still have a lot of racedays remaining to score big in small racedays. But I don't see how that can be any different. They are just monster riders and the only thing that could be taken into consideration with those likes is the wages - And I think that has already been taken into account. Those top 5 individual riders (each season) probably needs to get a "significantly" higher wage than those filling up the remaining, as they are simply better, and always will be.
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 25-04-2015 12:50
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2073
Joined: 14-09-2013
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Thanks for everyone's efforts. From a brief scan, looks more in line with what my gut feeling would be. The idea of identifying 'specialisations' by grouping stats makes a lot of sense. Will be interested (when finalised) in the final formula for calculating the overall #ifthentastic I assume! Intrigued how some riders end up with an overall higher than their highest stat, but looks likely that is better capturing the impact of 'all-rounder' types.
Summary - I like it thus far!
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 25-04-2015 13:25
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Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
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The updated OVL seems much better for the riders currently on my team. Especially Renäng was much overrated last version as he can't do anything except TT'in which means that he will never get close to a solid GC result as the tiniest hill will make him drop. That is now refelcetd in his OVL compared to Pökälä with the same TT-stat but significantly better back-up stats making him a possible GC contender for certain races.
Not sure I like how it affects my transfer target though
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| Mhaley45 |
Posted on 25-04-2015 13:53
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1036
Joined: 17-06-2009
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V3 appears to be a better method. Thanks for the time and effort to make this the best it can be. Can you share what the specialization weights are?
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Team Manager of AMEX - Navigon
Editor of the Cobbler
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