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Expansion Pack: Stat Discussion
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| cio93 |
Posted on 17-07-2012 21:50
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taker16 wrote:
Tejay is overrated in the mountain.
He might have been inconsistent so far, but he dropped Evans (arguably on one of his weaker days, but still...).
Maybe 76 would be more suitable, but that's marginal losses 
Edited by cio93 on 17-07-2012 21:52
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 18-07-2012 05:54
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Alakagom wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
63 HIL on Guardini is 3 pts lower than Cavendish, it's too high (or Cav's too low, which I believe is not the case) to make the difference you're saying.. should drop a couple more points on HIL for him.
As for Sagan, I keep the point of SP 78. He's fast, but not Top 5 in the world imo. And even with 78, he'd have an edge on the others with 78 because his ACC is higher than everybody's else (with 78 SP).
Guardini - already changed to 60 in the DB few seconds ago
About Sagan - I'll think about it. Will check results from all this year, it's 50-50 on this. Some people will prefer 79, some will 78. I am kinda willing to 78 too, overall he was beaten in fair few sprints this year by likes of EBH. We'll see.
I think 78/82 would be appropriate, but as you pointed out the stats should be made on the reality and you guys think that Greipel and Cavendish are 5!points better sprinter than Sagan? Or 6 when you would make it 77 for him. That would be difference of two levels, imagine difference between 77 and 83 climber for example. Of course he has advantage of secondary stats, but the stats should be rather based on facts and not how somebody thinks he will develop. 
For me Greipel and Cav just have too big margin to the others in the database, when being a 3-5points higher then the second best sprinters, they should dominate absolutely every stage in real life to justify this...and reality is that sprinters like Sagan,Goss,Veelers challenged them every day.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 18-07-2012 06:01
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
For me Greipel and Cav just have too big margin to the others in the database, when being a 3-5points higher then the second best sprinters, they should dominate absolutely every stage in real life to justify this...and reality is that sprinters like Sagan,Goss,Veelers challenged them every day.
First; they're currently 2-4 points higher. Secondly; no, Sagan/Goss/Veelers didn't challenge them, otherwise Greipel/Cav wouldn't be sharing alone all mass sprint finishes on this year's TdF (except for the stage Cav crashed and Greipel had serious injuries in his hand and only sprinted because half of hte competitors had fallen down). I also think it's no absurd for them to be 5 points over Sagan (82 to 77), although I'd agree more with 4 points only (82 to 78), but I think it's a bit crazy to have 4 points on the rest of the field bar Kittel. Even if irl they're dominating and in a class of their own, you shouldn't have such a big gap in the game, or it'll be extremely boring (a 4-point gap in a 35 point matrix is too huge)
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 18-07-2012 06:58
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
For me Greipel and Cav just have too big margin to the others in the database, when being a 3-5points higher then the second best sprinters, they should dominate absolutely every stage in real life to justify this...and reality is that sprinters like Sagan,Goss,Veelers challenged them every day.
First; they're currently 2-4 points higher. Secondly; no, Sagan/Goss/Veelers didn't challenge them, otherwise Greipel/Cav wouldn't be sharing alone all mass sprint finishes on this year's TdF ( except for the stage Cav crashed and Greipel had serious injuries in his hand and only sprinted because half of hte competitors had fallen down). I also think it's no absurd for them to be 5 points over Sagan (82 to 77), although I'd agree more with 4 points only (82 to 78), but I think it's a bit crazy to have 4 points on the rest of the field bar Kittel. Even if irl they're dominating and in a class of their own, you shouldn't have such a big gap in the game, or it'll be extremely boring (a 4-point gap in a 35 point matrix is too huge)
It would be fair to say Sagan also crashed and was not able to sprint at stage 5, as Cav earlier. And Goss was right behind Greipel in every of first stages, stage 13 Greipel won by centimetres, that is hardly 3-4 point margin to Goss. Also dont forget Lotto and Greenedge has massive advantages in their leadouts, in real and also in the game. But this disscussion could last forever 
My opinion is:
Cav 82/82
Greipel 82/81
Kittel 81/80
Gossy 80/79
Guardini 79/80
Petacchi 78/78
Sagan 78/82
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 18-07-2012 07:01
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| Smal |
Posted on 18-07-2012 12:24
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Free Agent
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Ian Stannard is underrated in a lot of areas imo.
In the Giro, he rode so hard on the flat that he split the peloton in half and brought back the escape group in no time at all. In Poland he was in the breakaway all day and he was caught. After Henao got brought back, Stannard got to the front and without even properly attacking he opened up a gap on the peloton and just kept going and opened up a massive gap. I would increase his FL to 76 from 74. Also I think his hill attribute is too low. He easily won the British RR on a very hilly circuit and he also climbed with Kreuziger in Poland and actually looked a lot more comfortable than him. I'd say an increase to 72 would be fair. Also, despite not being a great TTist, he finished the Giro TT very well, so I would increase his recovery up to somewhere near 70. I would also increase his RES, as he can put very long turns/attacks in. He also goes downhill much better than 62 would suggest. I've given him a 6 for potential as well, but it probably is borderline 5/6.
Also, I think Tiernan-Locke deserves a better ACC. He is very much so capable of accelerating fast uphill like a typical puncher. It should be 70+
Edited by Smal on 18-07-2012 12:43
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| dev4ever |
Posted on 18-07-2012 17:17
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What happened with Ivan Basoo?? |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 18-07-2012 17:22
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
For me Greipel and Cav just have too big margin to the others in the database, when being a 3-5points higher then the second best sprinters, they should dominate absolutely every stage in real life to justify this...and reality is that sprinters like Sagan,Goss,Veelers challenged them every day.
First; they're currently 2-4 points higher. Secondly; no, Sagan/Goss/Veelers didn't challenge them, otherwise Greipel/Cav wouldn't be sharing alone all mass sprint finishes on this year's TdF ( except for the stage Cav crashed and Greipel had serious injuries in his hand and only sprinted because half of hte competitors had fallen down). I also think it's no absurd for them to be 5 points over Sagan (82 to 77), although I'd agree more with 4 points only (82 to 78), but I think it's a bit crazy to have 4 points on the rest of the field bar Kittel. Even if irl they're dominating and in a class of their own, you shouldn't have such a big gap in the game, or it'll be extremely boring (a 4-point gap in a 35 point matrix is too huge)
It would be fair to say Sagan also crashed and was not able to sprint at stage 5, as Cav earlier. And Goss was right behind Greipel in every of first stages, stage 13 Greipel won by centimetres, that is hardly 3-4 point margin to Goss. Also dont forget Lotto and Greenedge has massive advantages in their leadouts, in real and also in the game. But this disscussion could last forever
My opinion is:
Cav 82/82
Greipel 82/81
Kittel 81/80
Gossy 80/79
Guardini 79/80
Petacchi 78/78
Sagan 78/82
Kitel is 80/77 IMO. That is still enough for him to get wins, but he is not better than Goss.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 18-07-2012 17:25
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
For me Greipel and Cav just have too big margin to the others in the database, when being a 3-5points higher then the second best sprinters, they should dominate absolutely every stage in real life to justify this...and reality is that sprinters like Sagan,Goss,Veelers challenged them every day.
First; they're currently 2-4 points higher. Secondly; no, Sagan/Goss/Veelers didn't challenge them, otherwise Greipel/Cav wouldn't be sharing alone all mass sprint finishes on this year's TdF ( except for the stage Cav crashed and Greipel had serious injuries in his hand and only sprinted because half of hte competitors had fallen down). I also think it's no absurd for them to be 5 points over Sagan (82 to 77), although I'd agree more with 4 points only (82 to 78), but I think it's a bit crazy to have 4 points on the rest of the field bar Kittel. Even if irl they're dominating and in a class of their own, you shouldn't have such a big gap in the game, or it'll be extremely boring (a 4-point gap in a 35 point matrix is too huge)
It would be fair to say Sagan also crashed and was not able to sprint at stage 5, as Cav earlier. And Goss was right behind Greipel in every of first stages, stage 13 Greipel won by centimetres, that is hardly 3-4 point margin to Goss. Also dont forget Lotto and Greenedge has massive advantages in their leadouts, in real and also in the game. But this disscussion could last forever
My opinion is:
Cav 82/82
Greipel 82/81
Kittel 81/80
Gossy 80/79
Guardini 79/80
Petacchi 78/78
Sagan 78/82
Kitel is 80/77 IMO. That is still enough for him to get wins, but he is not better than Goss.
Kittel should get better sprint and acc stat then Goss but his secondary stat's (flat, HILL, res, sta) should be way lower which makes Goss finish higher then Kittel in TdF stages.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 18-07-2012 17:33
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Kittel is 80/77 IMO. That is still enough for him to get wins, but he is not better than Goss.
I don't mind 80 Sprint, but ACC codes for the lenght of the sprint basically, and aren't sprints from 350 metres out Kittel's trademark?
Edited by cio93 on 18-07-2012 17:33
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| Rammus |
Posted on 18-07-2012 20:20
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Just noticed ...
I don't know if its an accident or someone doesn't like the guy, but Juan Jose Cobo is severely underated (76 mountain !)
It was only 10 months ago he won a GT with strong climbing performances including besting Contadors 2008 time up the Angliru. Don't forget he's building his season around the 2012 Vuelta which is why we have not seen too much of him (you can see as the TDF progresses he's gaining form), you can't write someone off after 10 months before they even attempt thier seasons goal !
Especially when you have guys like rujano (77), anton (80), gesink (79), valverde (77) who have not performed in much longer for various reasons (not saying these are wrong, just saying you can't single out cobo when its only been 10 months).
I don't even like Cobo but common even he deserves a lot more ... |
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Posted on 29-09-2024 18:34
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 18-07-2012 20:22
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Rammus wrote:
Just noticed ...
I don't know if its an accident or someone doesn't like the guy, but Juan Jose Cobo is severely underated (76 mountain !)
It was only 10 months ago he won a GT with strong climbing performances including besting Contadors 2008 time up the Angliru. Don't forget he's building his season around the 2012 Vuelta which is why we have not seen too much of him (you can see as the TDF progresses he's gaining form), you can't write someone off after 10 months before they even attempt thier seasons goal !
Especially when you have guys like rujano (77), anton (80), gesink (79), valverde (77) who have not performed in much longer for various reasons (not saying these are wrong, just saying you can't single out cobo when its only been 10 months).
I don't even like Cobo but common even he deserves a lot more ...
He hasn't done much I guess. I 'd give a 77 for him.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| roturn |
Posted on 18-07-2012 20:23
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I thought similar about Cobo. On the other hand he was horribly weak all season so far except for the last week of the Tour, which is not part of the DB.
So imo after the Tour he can be highered to 77 or maximum 78. Several others have 76, too and he still would stand a chance with National bonus to perform well in the Vuelta. |
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| climeon |
Posted on 18-07-2012 20:52
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I found Cobo's stats far too low, especially considering the times he was doing the Vuetla climbs in. I put him as 80 mountain in my database. I was also surprised by the low climbing stats for Porte and Rogers considering how strong they have been this tour and how big a Sky fan the stat maker is. It's impossible to dominate the tour the way Sky has been doing with their stats. I think they should be around 78 mountain each |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 18-07-2012 20:56
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As I said - most of tour stats will be done after Tour ends
For one Cobo came to Tour as jointed leader reading from all the articles and he didn't really show anything great. Cobo will be given 77 after Tour, however he didn't do much so far this year and so he won't have higher than 79 there- Vuelta might be his big goal so we'll see if increase will be needed there.
Edited by Alakagom on 18-07-2012 20:57
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 18-07-2012 21:01
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Rammus wrote:
Just noticed ...
I don't know if its an accident or someone doesn't like the guy, but Juan Jose Cobo is severely underated (76 mountain !)
It was only 10 months ago he won a GT with strong climbing performances including besting Contadors 2008 time up the Angliru. Don't forget he's building his season around the 2012 Vuelta which is why we have not seen too much of him (you can see as the TDF progresses he's gaining form), you can't write someone off after 10 months before they even attempt thier seasons goal !
Especially when you have guys like rujano (77), anton (80), gesink (79), valverde (77) who have not performed in much longer for various reasons (not saying these are wrong, just saying you can't single out cobo when its only been 10 months).
I don't even like Cobo but common even he deserves a lot more ...
If Gesink really has 79 that is really low in my opinion. You guys overreacted. He hasn't been very strong this season but don't forget he broke his leg last winter. He peaked to the Tour but crashed and couldn't defend his chances. The only time he was in some form this year was California and he was really impressive on Mt. Baldy. 80 sounds better.
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 18-07-2012 21:06
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Gesink is equal to VDB in climbing skill, IMO, they both deserve 80.
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 19-07-2012 09:13
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Could someone please upload the .cdb only? |
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| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 19-07-2012 09:19
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Here you go..
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 19-07-2012 09:43
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Thanks |
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 19-07-2012 10:33
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Done with half of Cofidis, what do you think? Only one mistake, Demaret's HIL and MO are swapped...
https://bildr.no/v... |
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