|
Attributes Guide
|
| Butters76 |
Posted on 09-07-2013 12:55
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 38
Joined: 16-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Sure we agree on those things. But are you guys sure potential isn't "the total"?
To make a comparision with football manager 2013.
You have a potential ability value from 1-200 on each player , but you can also use -10, -9, -8 . These minus values generate a potential number from 1-200 where -10 will generate a value from 180-200, -9 will generate a potential of 160-180 and so on.
A player with current ability 50 and potential abillity 180 can get just as good as a player with current abillity 150 and potential 180. It will just take him a bit longer to reach 180.
Thats the way I always though potential in PCM worked too. But I guess I'm mistaken. |
| |
|
|
| tellico |
Posted on 09-07-2013 13:04
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Crucial are limit_i_attribute and year_progression. Potential is key for sets limits for youngster and for all riders on the start of career. It is all described in link from my previous post and here https://pcmdaily.c...d_id=25667
cio93 wrote:
Stat limits are always semi-randomly set in a certain range defined by the potential and specialisation.
How limits can be determined on the basis of specialization if specialization is determined on the basis of the existing attribute values?
Edited by tellico on 09-07-2013 13:34
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2013 13:38
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
Potential is very very simple to understand.
Potential means Future Stat Progression, which equates to "How much will a rider improve in the future".
1 = Not at all
8 = Future Monument/GT winner
(or something along those lines)
So older riders such as Evans, Voeckler, Chavanel, Contador etc. all have low potentials as they are not going to improve in the future, due to their age. However someone like Kelderman will get a high potential as they are expected to challenge for the big wins in the future.
So if a rider is 30+ they will have a low potential as they are not likely to improve from their current level. A rider under 25 should develop and thus will get a higher level of potential.
All this stuff about Progression is mostly unnecessary when talking about Progression. It is always randomised for each new career/season so you could have an 8 potential rider taking 5 years to max out and a 5 potential maxing out in 6 months. While it can be interesting to understand it is mostly not useful. If you want to manually edit a riders stats or potential you do that in DYN_cyclist very simply.
|
| |
|
|
| cio93 |
Posted on 09-07-2013 13:59
|
World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
|
tellico wrote:
cio93 wrote:
Stat limits are always semi-randomly set in a certain range defined by the potential and specialisation.
How limits can be determined on the basis of specialization if specialization is determined on the basis of the existing attribute values?
Ehm, exactly that way?
Stats are done by the DB maker.
Based on the weight of stats in STA_type_rider, specialisations are calculated.
Both is obviously done pre-career, as you can see both in the team selection screen.
What happens while initiating a career is defining the stat limits based on specialisation (which stats the most) and potential (how high).
|
| |
|
|
| tellico |
Posted on 09-07-2013 14:02
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
cio93 wrote:
Based on the weight of stats in STA_type_rider, specialisations are calculated.
Both is obviously done pre-career, as you can see both in the team selection screen.
Ok, you're right. Specialization are calculated base on designed stats, pre-career. And ALSO during the carrer not ONLY, my bad.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Potential means Future Stat Progression, which equates to "How much will a rider improve in the future".
Exactly. And only affects the value of the limit of attributes. So, when Butters76 says:
" I would think potential is total, So a rider with AVG 79 and potential 6 will have no more max levels fully developed than a avg 66 with potential 6. " correct answer is:
potential has completely no matter after career starts. The limits were established and only limit_i_attribute indicates that there is still margin for growth or not.
Right?
Edited by tellico on 09-07-2013 14:09
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 00:01
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2013 14:12
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
Potentials are not linked to a specific stat value. An AVG79 rider. With potential 1 could go up a stat point or two in his best stat. So yes 
|
| |
|
|
| Firewolf |
Posted on 10-07-2013 17:04
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 48
Joined: 28-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kaimelar wrote:
Anderis wrote:
Isn't resistance about how quick the rider regains his yellow bar? I mean he burned some of it out with high effort, and then he lowered his effort (being caught by the peloton for example) and the rider with higher resistance would get his yellow bar back at quicker rate than rider with lower resitance in this case. Did you test it that way?
Yes i tried that too, check 9th post of the thread
tellico wrote:
I checked it and it seems that the resistance has no effect on the yellow bar. Neither the rate of consumption or the rate of regeneration.
I'm starting to feel ripped off. Cyanide makes us idiots.
So I may be right afterall, we need more people to test it
What? Really?? I don't have chance to check this till next week. Maybe it effects 'attacking strength'?
Edit:
By attacking strength I mean higher resistance the slower the bar decreases when attacking?
Edited by Firewolf on 10-07-2013 17:08
|
| |
|
|
| Kaimelar |
Posted on 11-07-2013 06:25
|
Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Firewolf wrote:
What? Really?? I don't have chance to check this till next week. Maybe it effects 'attacking strength'?
Edit:
By attacking strength I mean higher resistance the slower the bar decreases when attacking?
There was no difference while attacking during my tests, thanks for checking out next week, more people do it the better |
| |
|
|
| Cossack |
Posted on 11-07-2013 21:46
|
Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Could you also make a test of nationality bonus? For example how much stat difference make two riders equal when climbing (one with bonus, one without)? |
| |
|
|
| Kaimelar |
Posted on 12-07-2013 09:05
|
Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Cossack wrote:
Could you also make a test of nationality bonus? For example how much stat difference make two riders equal when climbing (one with bonus, one without)?
Well to make clean accurate tests you need to deactivate rider variables which means you turn off(I think) nationality bonus too, but possible to make somewhat equal tests if you get same daily form etc. |
| |
|
|
| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 12-07-2013 20:26
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kaimelar wrote:
Cossack wrote:
Could you also make a test of nationality bonus? For example how much stat difference make two riders equal when climbing (one with bonus, one without)?
Well to make clean accurate tests you need to deactivate rider variables which means you turn off(I think) nationality bonus too, but possible to make somewhat equal tests if you get same daily form etc.
Actually isn't it the other way around? Daily form there is an option in the menu to deactivate it but I can't remember any option for deactivating country bonus.
|
| |
|
|
| Kaimelar |
Posted on 13-07-2013 06:06
|
Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
lluuiiggii wrote:
Actually isn't it the other way around? Daily form there is an option in the menu to deactivate it but I can't remember any option for deactivating country bonus.
I'm not home so cannot check it but I think there's 2 option: deactivate feeling good and deactivate rider variables, i think the variables one turns off the nationality bonus too, because when I did my tests I tried the nationality(out of curiosity only 1 small test) and it didn't work with that 2 option checked, but im not sure what both does exactly |
| |
|
|
| Firewolf |
Posted on 16-07-2013 20:45
|
Junior Rider
Posts: 48
Joined: 28-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kaimelar wrote:
Firewolf wrote:
What? Really?? I don't have chance to check this till next week. Maybe it effects 'attacking strength'?
Edit:
By attacking strength I mean higher resistance the slower the bar decreases when attacking?
There was no difference while attacking during my tests, thanks for checking out next week, more people do it the better
Yeah I've just done a test, both riders with 55 everything, one with 90 in RES. None of the bars regen quicker, or decrease slower. Doesn't matter how much effort they put in or if they attack etc. Really weird. Slightly disappointed if I'm honest.. |
| |
|
|
| klysa93 |
Posted on 16-07-2013 20:58
|
Free Agent
Posts: 127
Joined: 19-09-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kaimelar wrote:
Resistance: Has no effect in 3D mode for human players, have impact on simulation especially on mountain stages; used to effect yellow bar consumption in previous versions; Cyanide should fix it
Recuperation: Has no effect for 3D mode for human players, does work in simulation (higher REC means more green bar regenerated after a stage); in stage race game mode it actually does have effect in 3D mode making lower REC cyclist getting worse fitness over time, but same green bar regeneration, doesn't do that in career mode; (and I was wondering why my 70 REC guy in giro had excellent freshness at last stage in my telekom career) Cyanide should fix it too
Well...I don't know about that...Just played the Giro on career. And had one rider with MOU 78 and REC 78 and one with MOU 76 and REC 66. And in the last week, there was big different between those 2 riders, and they had same form but the guy with REC 78 had more green to the next stage and keept his yellow bar much better
And also my rider(78MOU, 78REC) was 9th overall after 2 weeks, but finished 4th, after alot of people with low REC was loosing time in the last week |
| |
|
|
| Kaimelar |
Posted on 16-07-2013 21:50
|
Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Firewolf wrote:
None of the bars regen quicker, or decrease slower.
So 3 different people tested it and RES does nothing
klysa93 wrote:
Well...I don't know about that...Just played the Giro on career. And had one rider with MOU 78 and REC 78 and one with MOU 76 and REC 66.
Let me guess, your 78/78 was your leader and was 'defended' through the giro while the 76/66 was one of your domestic who may have worse secondary stats so lost more green bar during stages, even if both of them regenerates same amount of green bar, over the 3 weeks the difference becomes huge in green bar; non-player cyclists are irrelevant in this case.
Check a stage-race(inside career mode) when 2 of your cyclist has same attributes but 80-85 and 50-55 REC (same fitness, rhythm, tiredness and turn off daily form/variables) and make them spend exactly same amount of green bar during stage 1, if next day they have same green bar REC did nothing, if REC works they should have pretty different green bar.
Edited by Kaimelar on 16-07-2013 21:53
|
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 20-07-2013 19:00
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
Does resistance matter for ai in 3d race at all?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| Kaimelar |
Posted on 20-07-2013 20:45
|
Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
baseballlover312 wrote:
Does resistance matter for ai in 3d race at all?
Hard to give 100% sure answer and I mostly tested only for human players, but did some tests in that subject first it was with only 1 ai team gave their riders 50 and 85 RES and I made as high pace as needed for them to use yellow, there was no difference, they dropped randomly or all of them together if too high pace (was basic test I know it's lame one)
Then with normal sized peloton made half of the peleton 50 other half 85 RES did several stages with me being pace maker or inactive results were random.
Last type of test was leaving peloton stats normal but making top mountain guys(around 12) equal + 85 MO but 50/85 RES, so I tested them on mountain stages, front group at the end was always random 50 vs 85 cyclists (usually every 85 MO guy in the race finished together as a group).
I would say RES doesn't effect ai during 3D, but you can't 'see' their yellow bar that's why I didn't include it in the guide; as for simulation RES does work perfectly .
Edited by Kaimelar on 21-07-2013 09:07
|
| |
|
|
| Kaimelar |
Posted on 21-07-2013 09:20
|
Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
I'm sorry for misleading some people but I wanted to make people test their game by doubting my tests and what's better than claiming something that sound impossible, of course RES was there it really DOESN'T work but I needed 1 more stat which is lie and harder to test so I made it the REC and it worked since people did test their game once again im sorry all my other claimings should be accurate.
Thanks for TheManxMissile to doubt me that much and people who tested their game, we need guys like you to make the game better |
| |
|
|
| klysa93 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 13:27
|
Free Agent
Posts: 127
Joined: 19-09-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
So how important is Stamina for GC riders? Most GC riders are on 70-75 on STA, atleast in 2015 in this DB. So If I get a rider with 80+STA how much different is that from guys on 70-75? |
| |
|
|
| BritPCMFan |
Posted on 21-07-2013 13:48
|
Stagiare
Posts: 245
Joined: 03-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
klysa93 wrote:
So how important is Stamina for GC riders? Most GC riders are on 70-75 on STA, atleast in 2015 in this DB. So If I get a rider with 80+STA how much different is that from guys on 70-75?
It means that past 170km they will be slightly faster (if all other stats are equal) |
| |
|
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
