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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:01
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Oh okay, thanks for explaining.
So now attacking on mountains is also for retards? I'm sure the future of cycling would be golden in the hands of people believing that 
1. He did fade at the end. But he won on the Ventoux, prestige, and had 5 minutes to spare to fade away, no problem for him. Didn't go over his wattage limit, I'm sure.
2. Maybe everyone else was just weak 
EDIT: Sorry Alakagom, end of conversation 
Edited by Ian Butler on 22-07-2013 20:02
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| mat4404 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:02
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Ian Butler wrote:
He won there. I still fail to see your point...
EDIT: or is that just about the way he looks when attacking? I thought it was mentally, as in stupid-decision moronic.
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| jako3219 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:04
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I Think froome and quintana should have the same mountainstats.
Cuz' if you take the time that froome gained on TTT and ITT he only won by 19 seconds. |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:07
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That could also be solved by giving Quintana more REC (he was stronger at the final stages, Froome looked stronger in the first week) |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:19
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jako3219 wrote:
I Think froome and quintana should have the same mountainstats.
Cuz' if you take the time that froome gained on TTT and ITT he only won by 19 seconds.
Froome lost a minute on the champs
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:23
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Jesleyh wrote:
@Valv Said that to Pelli as well, I don't know, just thought that'd happen, I didn't watch every minute on my holiday
You don't to have watched every single minute. As long as you at least know the results of the stages were there was time differences from the favorites, you'll already know if there was any time where Valverde gained time because of him being 10 mins behind 
Kaimelar wrote:
Froome deserves high ACC but it would make him unbeatable in mountain top finish sprints (sprint stat doesn't matter in this case) which isn't realistic so I would leave him at mid 70~
MTF sprints really are decided by whoever has most left, aren't they? Tbh I'm still to see a MTF sprint in PCM13
Ian Butler wrote:
Just a general question here. Why don't we use stats up to 85 for the database? We have a range from 50 - 85 and it seems useless to only fill it up to 80 in some cases... Room for improvement could be a good reason but even then Gilbert/Rodriguez at hill 80 would be strange because it's not like they'll improve to 85 and they are among the world top so why not 83/84?
Well, from how things are currently it'd require quite some work to do such a change (e.g. you can't just up the guy who had 80 to 85 and leave all the ones who had 70 with 70, you'd also need to adjust young rider improvements, we'd have to consider if the changes in the finances f.e. wouldn't be messed up, etc). That said, with the quite big gaps in mountain/hilly stages in PCM13, I'm thinking that Daily's stat matrix, which for some was too "filled" in PCM12 (too many riders with good stats) well actually go quite well in PCM13 (to not make the gaps problem even higher)
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| ruben |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:35
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I agree the stats should be closer together. Make the difference with END/RES mainly. And keep MO/ITT/HIL/COB/SP closer together |
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| Cossack |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:35
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Domestique
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On topic of 85 stats for best riders: in my opinion it makes no sense, as:
1) it doesn't leave any space for rider development,
2) junior riders will never be able to be better then current winners. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 14:48
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| ruben |
Posted on 22-07-2013 20:41
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1) If a rider is at the absolute top, he should be given 85. F.ex I can't see Froome actually improving anymore.
2) This is BS, if you set the youngriderxmls properly you can have talents that can be as good as the current top riders. Eventually the current riders decline anyway so the talents will surpass them |
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| fickman |
Posted on 22-07-2013 21:57
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BTW after so many disinformation about the REC stat, could someone confirm how big is the impact of REC in Stage Race??? |
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| Cossack |
Posted on 22-07-2013 22:05
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Domestique
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ruben wrote:
2) This is BS, if you set the youngriderxmls properly you can have talents that can be as good as the current top riders. Eventually the current riders decline anyway so the talents will surpass them
They could be as good, but couldn't be better, and age of decline in Daily DB is 34, so it's quite late (you can see that Contador is already declining). |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 23-07-2013 00:28
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fickman wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
And I don't say that to other people a lot of time, would be pretty dumb if I would say that.
And what do you mean? That's only with Gesink. I don't disagree with Mollema & Ten Dam's stats yet, since haven't seen the after-the-Tour stats yet.
And c'mon. Because 1 rider(Gesink) always crashes or get ill and use that as an excuse, it's not like every Belkin rider is like that, that's mean
And for your last point(which is invalid anyway, since Mollema wasn't a leader and I think not even a co-leader there, and Ten Dam had about the same role as in this Tour), you could use REC stat
I think u allready forgot how often u were saying that before the Giro when people were asking to lower Gesink stats
Some Belkin fans were claiming the only reason why Mollema and Ten Dam couldnt hold their palce in the GC was because of illnes and a crash in the TT (i must say i didnt saw Ten Dam on the flor or read about it and only saw Mollema going against the barriers, but couldt see any wounds on both of them) So as u can see the crash illnes thing not only apply to Gesink but on both of them as well.
Mollema iirc had a free rolle untill stage 8 were he cracked completly before that he was even netter place than Gesink in the GC.
As u can see there are some similarities between Vuelta 2012 and this Tour (awsome 1 week and then progressive lost of places in the GC)
And giving him 79 MO only beacuse of 1 Stage in the whole year is too much. 78 and low REC is fine.
Exactly 79 for Mollema, must mean 79 for Costa and they don't deserve that, although Costa is closer than Mollema to 79 imo. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 00:41
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Initiate fanboy attack
BTW, I also think that Dan martin should get 80 hill if others are raised. Right now he has the same as Betancur, who didn't win the biggest hills race ever this year.
Betancur finished 3rd in Fleche and 4th in Liege.
Martin was 4th in Fleche due to positioning, and won Liege.
I see no reason why they have the same hill. Betancur has better mountain and acceleration. But I think martin is at least a point above him. So I think either Martin has 80, or Betancur has 78.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 23-07-2013 01:03
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Initiate fanboy attack
BTW, I also think that Dan martin should get 80 hill if others are raised. Right now he has the same as Betancur, who didn't win the biggest hills race ever this year.
Betancur finished 3rd in Fleche and 4th in Liege.
Martin was 4th in Fleche due to positioning, and won Liege.
I see no reason why they have the same hill. Betancur has better mountain and acceleration. But I think martin is at least a point above him. So I think either Martin has 80, or Betancur has 78.
No , definitely IMO.
Martin didn't get 3 times 2nd place, 2 times 3rd and 4th place on Giro's stages. 2 of them were hilly. -> edit* Betancur did this + his awesome results in Giro.
+
You know how close Betancur was in every of these classics,it's definitely not worth 1 point more. They should stay on same level, and form will decide,like it did this spring.
Edited by admirschleck on 23-07-2013 01:05
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 01:10
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admirschleck wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Initiate fanboy attack
BTW, I also think that Dan martin should get 80 hill if others are raised. Right now he has the same as Betancur, who didn't win the biggest hills race ever this year.
Betancur finished 3rd in Fleche and 4th in Liege.
Martin was 4th in Fleche due to positioning, and won Liege.
I see no reason why they have the same hill. Betancur has better mountain and acceleration. But I think martin is at least a point above him. So I think either Martin has 80, or Betancur has 78.
No , definitely IMO.
Martin didn't get 3 times 2nd place, 2 times 3rd and 4th place on Giro's stages. 2 of them were hilly. -> edit* Betancur did this + his awesome results in Giro.
+
You know how close Betancur was in every of these classics,it's definitely not worth 1 point more. They should stay on same level, and form will decide,like it did this spring.
Martin wasn't in the Giro.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 23-07-2013 01:27
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Nothing on Tour. Except (BREAKAWAY) win no TOP10 places for him.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 01:37
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admirschleck wrote:
Nothing on Tour. Except (BREAKAWAY) win no TOP10 places for him.
How many hilly stages were in this Tour that didn't come down to reduced sprints? I don't remember one. We aren't talking about his mountain stat.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 23-07-2013 01:45
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And how big gaps Martin made to Betancur on Spring Classics? Not more than 5seconds on any of them (except LBL).
And what if every hilly stage came to end? Shouldn't Martin make attack,or with his "80" hill make a difference on them and win? And not a single hilly stage that he reached TOP20, btw.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 23-07-2013 02:06
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admirschleck wrote:
And how big gaps Martin made to Betancur on Spring Classics? Not more than 5seconds on any of them (except LBL).
You mean on the 2 spring classics we're comparing? Oh, actually you're taking LBL out of the comparison, so there's only one left And btw, as far as I'm aware this helps to prove bblover's point that they are in the same level at least.
I mean, I think there's little doubt that Martin is among the best in hills as he showed it in the Ardennes. Won LBL and would he have been better positioned in the Huy he could have won/top3d Fleche. Mountains is a different thing of course.
That said, when did anyone even mention raising Betancur's hill or lowering Martin's? If I've seen correctly bblover started defending Martin's hill randomly?
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 23-07-2013 02:22
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lluuiiggii wrote:
bblover started defending Martin's hill randomly?
baseballlover312 wrote:
But I think martin is at least a point above him. So I think either Martin has 80, or Betancur has 78.
Yep, we're talking about only 2, since both of them DNFed on Amstel Gold Race (i count it as spring classic).
Edited by admirschleck on 23-07-2013 02:32
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