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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| fickman |
Posted on 21-07-2013 00:09
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Sprinter
Posts: 1627
Joined: 25-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Froome 83
Quintana 82
Purito 81
Nibali 81
Porte 80
Valverde 80
Contador 79
Kreuziger 79
Betancur 78
Uran 78
V.d.Broek 78
Wiggins 78
Mollema 78
Henao 78
Fuglsang 78
Mikel Nieve 78
Dani Moreno 77
Ten Dam 77
Talansky 77
Pinot 77
Hesjedal 77
Evans 77
Rui Costa 77
Scarponi 77
Pozzovivo 77
Niemiec 77
Majka 77
Peraud 77
Intxausti 76
Gesink 76
Samuel Sanchez 76
Anton 76
Dani Navarro 76
Van Garderen 76
Rolland 76
Kwiatkowski 76
Thats just my opinion, u dont have to agree with me. BTW there are a lot of riders who need a masive drop in stats imo. |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 21-07-2013 00:13
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Generally that's the way I feel too, there's two or three riders that may differ by one point down or up in my opinion but as general look, the new update will look very similar to this.
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| Jokke97 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 00:19
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Amateur
Posts: 15
Joined: 23-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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My opinion Mountain/REC
Froome 83/79
Quintana 82/81
Nibali 81/80
Purito 81/80
Valverde 80/78
Porte 80/78
Betancur 79/77
Contador 79/78
Kreuziger 79/78
Uran 79/77
Henao 78/77
(Will extend the list later)
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 02:45
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Once again, recovery stats should be given out to GC guys and all be within 4 points of each other. It has to be considered individually, and not just as a backup stat. Then it will be much more realistic.
BTW, I guess Hesjedal's reign is over. Sicknesses and fractured ribs make him 77. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 00:49
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| thechudude |
Posted on 21-07-2013 03:15
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Stagiare
Posts: 153
Joined: 25-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Jokke97 wrote:
My opinion Mountain/REC
Froome 83/79
Quintana 82/81
Nibali 81/80
Purito 81/80
Valverde 80/78
Porte 80/78
Betancur 79/77
Contador 79/78
Kreuziger 79/78
Uran 79/77
Henao 78/77
(Will extend the list later)
I think someone like Cadel Evans and even Andy Schleck could be thrown in there!
Don't forget Cadel came 3rd in the Giro with a late inclusion but for the tour he just wasnt ready for it... The Giro killed him and he was probably mentally really tired especially with the the conditions at the Giro.
He probably wasnt 100% for the Giro and that BMC got his schedule wrong!
-Andy Schleck is just out of form. I think he can get back atleast close to his best with more racing under his belt. Even though he has raced a lot recently but the fact he took a long time of it takes a while to rebuild it all again! Even the mental side as well for someone like Andy |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 03:18
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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thechudude wrote:
Jokke97 wrote:
My opinion Mountain/REC
Froome 83/79
Quintana 82/81
Nibali 81/80
Purito 81/80
Valverde 80/78
Porte 80/78
Betancur 79/77
Contador 79/78
Kreuziger 79/78
Uran 79/77
Henao 78/77
(Will extend the list later)
I think someone like Cadel Evans and even Andy Schleck could be thrown in there!
Don't forget Cadel came 3rd in the Giro with a late inclusion but for the tour he just wasnt ready for it... The Giro killed him and he was probably mentally really tired especially with the the conditions at the Giro.
He probably wasnt 100% for the Giro and that BMC got his schedule wrong!
-Andy Schleck is just out of form. I think he can get back atleast close to his best with more racing under his belt. Even though he has raced a lot recently but the fact he took a long time of it takes a while to rebuild it all again! Even the mental side as well for someone like Andy
pfffffffffff
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| thechudude |
Posted on 21-07-2013 03:19
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Stagiare
Posts: 153
Joined: 25-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Oh and BTW people are saying Froome's REC should be lower then Quintana... I don't think that is the case just because of the Alpes. You gotta take in consideration that Froome has done a lot more racing then Quintana this year and the probably shows why Quintana is a lot fresher! Quintana has pretty much just done the Liege |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 21-07-2013 05:05
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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baseballlover312 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
NTTHRASH wrote:
but really, the REC, RES, and STA are important in 10+ day races, and need to be discussed more.
Well, not that much in the current state of the game 
Kaimelar wrote:
Resistance: Has no effect in 3D mode for human players
Recuperation: Has no effect for 3D mode for human players
Recovery is for between stages. Wouldn't make sense in 3D mode except for Porte.
Pretty sure Kaimelar knows that and tested it like that....
Spoiler valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
ruben wrote:
I disagree giving Mollema low rec just because he became ill.
In the Vuelta 2011 he was still very strong at the end (Pena Cabarga).
You'd better give him low RES instead.
Resistance has no effect.
Am I missing something? I thought it had an effect in the game or else it would be useless to include as a stat....
According to tests it has no effect. Check out the attributes thread.
Edit: At least not in 3D.
It effects AI though, doesn't it?
... that said, it's not because of this that we shouldn't ignore these stats, since we'd expect Cyanide to fix them at some point in the future (be it the next patch or game). I was just pointing that, based on how it is currently even when RES/REC have some effect again I don't think they'll be f.e. as important as MO 
(btw, RES is not doing any effect to AI as well apparently)
thechudude wrote:
Oh and BTW people are saying Froome's REC should be lower then Quintana... I don't think that is the case just because of the Alpes. You gotta take in consideration that Froome has done a lot more racing then Quintana this year and the probably shows why Quintana is a lot fresher! Quintana has pretty much just done the Liege
Quintana: https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...r_Quintana
"7808 km in 49 race days."
Froome: https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...her_Froome
"7675.35 km in 50 race days."
If you however mean "Quintana has raced hard in fewer races than Froome", he's 14th on CQ Ranking (Froome is 1st of course but that's because he's just better).
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 21-07-2013 09:22
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Pretty sure Kaimelar knows that and tested it like that....
Ok time to end it REC does work don't worry, I'm sorry for misleading some people but I wanted to make people test their game by doubting my tests and what's better than claiming something that sound impossible, of course RES was there it really DOESN'T work but I needed 1 more stat which is lie and harder to test so I made it the REC and it worked since people did test their game once again im sorry all my other claimings should be accurate.
And to stay in the topic, lower Sagan's sprint but raise his ACC, he has really good kick but weak top speed so 77-78/83-4 with ACC working as it should and sprint only effecting speed you should revisit the sprinters and leadouts stats |
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| Kristoffer |
Posted on 21-07-2013 09:54
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Under 23
Posts: 82
Joined: 23-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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fickman wrote:
Froome 83
Quintana 82
Purito 81
Nibali 81
Porte 80
Valverde 80
Contador 79
Kreuziger 79
Betancur 78
Uran 78
V.d.Broek 78
Wiggins 78
Mollema 78
Henao 78
Fuglsang 78
Mikel Nieve 78
Dani Moreno 77
Ten Dam 77
Talansky 77
Pinot 77
Hesjedal 77
Evans 77
Rui Costa 77
Scarponi 77
Pozzovivo 77
Niemiec 77
Majka 77
Peraud 77
Intxausti 76
Gesink 76
Samuel Sanchez 76
Anton 76
Dani Navarro 76
Van Garderen 76
Rolland 76
Kwiatkowski 76
Thats just my opinion, u dont have to agree with me. BTW there are a lot of riders who need a masive drop in stats imo.
I really does not see Wiggins ever be as good as 78 in mountains again. Has not showed any climbing at all for the last year. Also, don't think that Henao and Nieve deserves same stats as Betancur/Uran. For the rest I think is pretty OK, but think I would lowered Daniel Moreno from 77 to 76. |
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| romaniangoat |
Posted on 21-07-2013 10:01
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Free Agent
Posts: 100
Joined: 23-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Kristoffer wrote:
fickman wrote:
Froome 83
Quintana 82
Purito 81
Nibali 81
Porte 80
Valverde 80
Contador 79
Kreuziger 79
Betancur 78
Uran 78
V.d.Broek 78
Wiggins 78
Mollema 78
Henao 78
Fuglsang 78
Mikel Nieve 78
Dani Moreno 77
Ten Dam 77
Talansky 77
Pinot 77
Hesjedal 77
Evans 77
Rui Costa 77
Scarponi 77
Pozzovivo 77
Niemiec 77
Majka 77
Peraud 77
Intxausti 76
Gesink 76
Samuel Sanchez 76
Anton 76
Dani Navarro 76
Van Garderen 76
Rolland 76
Kwiatkowski 76
Thats just my opinion, u dont have to agree with me. BTW there are a lot of riders who need a masive drop in stats imo.
I really does not see Wiggins ever be as good as 78 in mountains again. Has not showed any climbing at all for the last year. Also, don't think that Henao and Nieve deserves same stats as Betancur/Uran. For the rest I think is pretty OK, but think I would lowered Daniel Moreno from 77 to 76.
Henao is much better than Uran all year except Giro when was sick.
ex Ventoux
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| issoisso |
Posted on 21-07-2013 10:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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About Nibali: actually Nibali's VAM and w/kg at the Giro were lower than his 2012 Tour.
Simply everyone else's was a lot lower too
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| atlanta |
Posted on 21-07-2013 10:17
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
Joined: 31-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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RK should be better than Contador guys, every damn stage he could tempo back to AC lame ass, Contador was lame wheel sucker all TDF. He should just switch to downhill racing me thinks. And I think people like Mollema hould be kept the same Mollema was never that great imo he was anonymous for me, I dint hardly see him climb atall with the best. 78/76 mountain/rec for me. |
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| Zilu |
Posted on 21-07-2013 10:45
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Amateur
Posts: 20
Joined: 14-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Why change VDB?
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 21-07-2013 10:54
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5194
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Guys, keep in mind Mollema was ill in the last week. When editing his stats, look at the Pyrenees stages and not the Alps.
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 21-07-2013 11:06
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Zilu wrote:
Why change VDB?
You have to see these stats in relation to others. With 78, he's on the same level with Mollema (6th @ 12'25" ) and Fuglsang (7th @ 13' ). With 79, he'd be on the same level with Contador (4th @ 7'10" ) and Kreuziger (5th @ 8'10" ). We don't know where he would've finished without bad luck, but if you think he could've finished between Contador and Kreuziger, you're free to edit his stats yourself. I think he would've finished somewhere between Kreuziger and Mollema, which means he should get 78,5. ;-)
I think Hesjedal should get 78 as well.
He suffered from his fall in Suisse, but in the Alps he's shown some impressive stuff.
Edited by MartijnVDD on 21-07-2013 11:07
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| atlanta |
Posted on 21-07-2013 11:11
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
Joined: 31-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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MartijnVDD wrote:
Zilu wrote:
Why change VDB?
You have to see these stats in relation to others. With 78, he's on the same level with Mollema (6th @ 12'25" ) and Fuglsang (7th @ 13' ). With 79, he'd be on the same level with Contador (4th @ 7'10" ) and Kreuziger (5th @ 8'10" ). We don't know where he would've finished without bad luck, but if you think he could've finished between Contador and Kreuziger, you're free to edit his stats yourself. I think he would've finished somewhere between Kreuziger and Mollema, which means he should get 78,5. ;-)
I think Hesjedal should get 78 as well.
He suffered from his fall in Suisse, but in the Alps he's shown some impressive stuff.
Well I think JVdB could have been top 5, AC is not on a great level, RK was the man who probably wold have podiumed, on virtually every mnt stage he tempo'ed back to AC. And people saying Purito should be third best climber should maybe look at the rest of the TDF. The best 3 climbers are Quintana/Froome and then Nibali and a little gap two Purito. |
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| mat4404 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 11:43
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Under 23
Posts: 81
Joined: 05-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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atlanta wrote:
RK should be better than Contador guys, every damn stage he could tempo back to AC lame ass, Contador was lame wheel sucker all TDF. He should just switch to downhill racing me thinks. And I think people like Mollema hould be kept the same Mollema was never that great imo he was anonymous for me, I dint hardly see him climb atall with the best. 78/76 mountain/rec for me.
Except the two mountain stages and the first time trial before he got sick? He was better than AC in the first 2 weeks. He imploded on Mont Ventoux due to illness as corroborated by Joaquim Rodriguez. Added to which, outside of a soon to be dominant Sky Team and a "not normal" Cobo performance in 2011 he was best at Vuelta '11. For me I'd have him 79. He was as good as RK in the first 2 weeks of this tour.
I've been thinking about Nieve a lot, wink wink, and think he should have 78. He's always prominent in the GC and in this most recent tour he finished 12th despite losing the same 10 minutes as Valverde and being dirt at TTing. His mountain top results were (excluding early breakaways in brackets):
Ax3: 6th (6th) - Nothing special to note
MV: 3rd (3rd) - Dropped Contador and held off Rodriguez
Alpe: 9th (6th) - Despite being in a breakaway which was caught by the Peloton)
Semnoz: 13th (12th) - Slightly noteworthy that he got distanced before the bottom of the climb in earnest.
FYI, I did a quick calculation of the GC of the main protagonists on Mountain Top Finishes only (Ax3, MV, Alpe, Semnoz)
Froome 19 hrs 26 mins 36 secs
Quintana + 0.29
Rodriguez + 2.05
Valverde + 4.57
Porte + 5.28
Contador + 6.11
Nieve + 6.39
Kreuziger + 6.54
Fuglsang + 8.31
Mollema + 9.08
Talansky + 12.31
Stats by numbers doesn't allow for qualitative information or feelings to be incorporated or other variances such as "hitting the wall", off days, working for team mates etc. However, it does give a feel for who should have roughly what stat.
From the above, it backs up my point regarding Nieve. Only just shy of Contador and better than Kreuziger. Furthermore, it reminded me of how poor Talansky was early on. If it weren't for his successful breakaway (much like Dani Navarro) he wouldn't have been near the top 10.
Edited by mat4404 on 21-07-2013 11:48
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| masch20 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 12:08
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Under 23
Posts: 58
Joined: 25-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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i havent seen anyone rate D.Martin MO skill,should it be 77 or 78? |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 21-07-2013 12:11
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World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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77, with very low recovery.
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