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Planning Season/Fitness/Training
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| BlackwaterSaxon |
Posted on 23-09-2011 20:01
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Amateur
Posts: 18
Joined: 02-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi guys,
I am currently attempting my first proper plan for a season as Endura Racing and I could do with a little assistance so far as planning is concerned. This is my first time planning an entire season as well as managing the riders fitness and training schedules, having allowed the game to decide those things before for me.
I have started by filling out the sponsor races with teams that compliment the sponsors goals in the race as well as my own ambitions for the team in those races, from there I've scattered a few 1.1 races to flesh out the schedule but apart from that I'm winging it. I am pretty sure that randomly picking races is not how the game is supposed to be played so I was wondering how other managers determine what races they will enter and the races that they will use to support these larger stage races.
The other issue I am having is regards to fitness schedules, I'm using the PCM Planner and messed about with the fitness schedules somewhat but I am not exactly sure what I am trying to achieve, level 6 fitness for each race that rider will be attending or is there a more precise art to the organising of a riders fitness?
Lastly, I have not even attempted to look into training, but is there any guide for those new to the game, as well as cycling, on what the manager is supposed to achieve by planning these sorts of things, as I feel that I'm missing out on part of the game by my lack of knowledge of the sport and without any tutorial in-game, I feel that this isn't a game I can just jump in and enjoy as a manager.
Any help is greatly appreciated. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 23-09-2011 20:49
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
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Which planner do you mean? If you use the excel file, then you would see the estimated fatigue. You can also see the estimated fatigue if you change the fitness schedules in the game. There you should be able to see the basics behind the fitness schedules.
Level 6 is a killer, it gives your riders the best fitness but also will make them very tired. You should be very careful with using level 6, if a rider should have several peaks then use level 5 instead, not only can your rider achieve it faster but also you can have longer phases of recovery (level 1 to 3). |
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| BlackwaterSaxon |
Posted on 23-09-2011 22:34
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Amateur
Posts: 18
Joined: 02-08-2011
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I'm using the built in fitness schedule planner that is part of the PCM Planner V2. I am still not entirely sure how fatigue and the like actually work, there doesn't really seem to be an explanation in the manual or anything |
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| Heloo |
Posted on 24-09-2011 02:44
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Just an answer on your question regarding fitness. Its best to plan a longer period in which you want a cyclist to peak, like 1-2(-3) months. For instance april-may for Giro. Too many different short peaks won't be that effective since you also want enough race-fitness. Each cyclist can have 2-3 such peak periods. Just make sure they dont exceed 60 races by too much.
In these peak periods you get them to level 5, drop to 4 in weeks you don't have (important) races. Training to level 6 gives too much fatigue in my opinion and will only rise your fitness 2 points (lvl 5 = 77-78, lvl 6 = 80). Most important is to have at least 15 race fitness when you get to your goal, so about 10 race-days.
For the most important goals you can consider training to lvl 6 but never more than 1-2 times a season. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 24-09-2011 17:50
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
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My tool is called Season planner, not PCM planner.
As I said before, try to understand how the fitness planning works in the game first. |
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| BlackwaterSaxon |
Posted on 24-09-2011 20:15
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Amateur
Posts: 18
Joined: 02-08-2011
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That's my main problem Lachi, I'm not entirely sure how the fitness planning works in the game and what exactly I am supposed to achieve by planning my riders fitness, the snippet of information in the manual is more of a footnote than anything, and doesn't give a decent explanation of what to do.
Also, many apologies Lachi, hadn't realised you were the guy that had designed the season planner, can I just take this opportunity to thank you for your work, it really is an incredibly useful tool, I'm sure it'll be even more useful when I get to grips with the game mechanics.
Edited by BlackwaterSaxon on 24-09-2011 20:19
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 06:01
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| adhansa |
Posted on 26-09-2011 14:35
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You can 80 in form from fitness while in the dark green training, 76 in light green, 70 in orange, 64 in yellow.The higher level you train the more fatigue you build up, and only at dark green it rises steeply. When in yellew and red traning you reduse fatigue. The more fatigue you build up, the lower the maximum fitness you can gain from training. You still need to get a lot of fatigue to te get below 76 inmaximum trining fitness.
There are limitations to how quickly you can rise and lower training, so you normally want two or three peaks during a season.
Thenhow you want t train you your riders is up to you, the game is fairly openended, Your absolute leaders you want to peak at the Grand tours or the April Classics, depending on his stats. Your sergeants you want to be at light green at the same time as yours leaders, and maybe also have longer light green peaks to be leader during "blue" tours. Team members and youth riders will rarely affect races, i normally have the on long light green peaks (one set of riders spring/autoum, and one with a long summer peak), that way half or all are always in decent shape with 75-76 form from fitness.
The programs that are premade are fairly well balansed, they are a bit conservative i think you could do with more fatiguedriving programs.
I think that program overvalues shortterm fatigue and undervalues long term, leading to that you can be pretty generous with fatigue early in a training program but that there is rarely any gain from dark green training in the end of a season. At the first peak during a season i aim for a single dark green peak 2-3 weeks, with 3-5 light green training before. i allow fatigue to rise to 2/3 of the green bar during the peak without worrying. The second peak is much harder to have easy rules for , depends on how much rest you can afford.
Edited by adhansa on 26-09-2011 14:51
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| ggDonovan |
Posted on 26-09-2011 16:38
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 897
Joined: 08-08-2011
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Usually I make 3 teams of 8 riders and I split the season in 6 parts:
1- Early Classics / Tours
2- Flandes / Arndennes
3- Giro
4- Tour
5- Vuelta
6- Late Classics
Each one of the teams focus in two parts of the season (always having at least one part as rest, don't do 2 and 3 but yes 2 and 4).
You can do minor tweaks inside the parts to have always riders fit to fight for the goals outside the main races.
If you play your cards wisely you can even have 3 peaks in one season. As an example here my leader pick for my career with a custom team.
1- Early Classics / Tours (early races Hutarovich / late races LL Sanchez)
2- Flandes / Arndennes (Rodriguez)
3- Giro (Bruseghin)
4- Tour (Rodriguez)
5- Vuelta (LL Sanchez / Bruseghin) and (Hutarovich for the pre-Vuelta races)
6- Late Classics (Rodriguez)
Translated to form, for example, Rodriguez will finish with 67 days and a theoretical form at Giro de Lombardia of 86, I think, enough for a top 10.
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| BlackwaterSaxon |
Posted on 26-09-2011 23:01
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ggDonovan, how are you calculating what form Rodriguez should end the season with? |
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| ggDonovan |
Posted on 27-09-2011 10:10
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BlackwaterSaxon wrote:
ggDonovan, how are you calculating what form Rodriguez should end the season with?
According to the PCM_FitnessPlanning_2011.xls using the training schedule for rodriguez I will get his form to 74 and the fatigue to 7244 seting his maximum of trainning to 77 that is more than the fitness I'm getting so it's fine.
Now, I set some preraces that will get him 12 day races before the Giro di Lombardia. Because he will get to the GdL with 67 days raced, it will mean 7 days over the limit. This will cause a penalisation of 3,5 days of race (7 days * 0,5) meaning that the maximum of race fitness will decrease to 16/17 days (20-3,5). I'm under the limit this time as well.
In conclusion, 74 training fitness + 12 race fitness that means a fitness of 86 at the Giro of Lombardia. It's an estimation and I don't know if will be true but I compiled some information here in this forum and I came out with this. I'm sure our planning God, Lachi (  ), or xwiart, the owner of the excel, will know better if this is true or not.
Edited by ggDonovan on 27-09-2011 10:12
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| titleist82 |
Posted on 27-09-2011 14:15
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Table below precisely shows relation between days raced and maximum racing fitness
You get maximum racing fitness between 15 and 60 racedays, after which max fit starts to drop
source: dyn_cyclist table of any savegame at the end of a season
Spoiler
| Racedays | Max Race Fitness | | 0 | 10,0 | | 1 | 10,7 | | 2 | 11,3 | | 3 | 12,0 | | 4 | 12,7 | | 5 | 13,3 | | 6 | 14,0 | | 7 | 14,7 | | 8 | 15,3 | | 9 | 16,0 | | 10 | 16,7 | | 11 | 17,3 | | 12 | 18,0 | | 13 | 18,7 | | 14 | 19,3 | | 15 | 20,0 | | ... | 20,0 | | 60 | 20,0 | | 61 | 19,4 | | 62 | 18,9 | | 63 | 18,3 | | 64 | 17,7 | | 65 | 17,1 | | 66 | 16,6 | | 67 | 16,0 | | 68 | 15,4 | | 69 | 14,9 | | 70 | 14,3 | | 71 | 13,7 | | 72 | 13,1 | | 73 | 12,6 | | 74 | 12,0 | | 75 | 11,4 | | 76 | 10,9 | | 77 | 10,3 | | 78 | 9,7 | | 79 | 9,1 | | 80 | 8,6 | | 81 | 8,0 | | 82 | 7,4 | | 83 | 6,9 | | 84 | 6,3 | | 85 | 5,7 | | 86 | 5,1 | | 87 | 4,6 | | 88 | 4,0 | | 89 | 3,4 | | 90 | 2,9 | | 91 | 2,3 | | 92 | 1,7 | | 93 | 1,1 | | 94 | 0,6 | | 95+ | 0,0 |
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| cymarel |
Posted on 21-08-2012 14:27
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Under 23
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Does anyone know what is the math for achieving race day fitness? Not your max, but the actual race fitness. How much does a race day increase your race fitness and how much does a rest day lowers it? |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 21-08-2012 15:57
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You can have a look in the table posted by titleist82 to find out the first question, it takes 15 days to gain 10 race fitness. But it is about double as fast to return to a level which has been reached before.
But it should not matter that much because you cannot win or lose a race because of 1 or 2 points in the race fitness. |
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| cymarel |
Posted on 22-08-2012 16:14
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Under 23
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Thanks Lachi... I test it it within the game and you win about 2.2 points for every race day and lose about 0.5 for every day rest. It helps me calculate how close I have to put races together in the planning to achieve race fitness peak at the same time I achieve fitness training peak.
I would love to be able to calculate fatigue, but I imagine that takes into account to many factors. |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 22-08-2012 17:06
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cymarel wrote:
I would love to be able to calculate fatigue, but I imagine that takes into account to many factors.
I believe that the Fitness Planner calculates the exact values of fatigue. Afaik, there's no other factor than the level of the training weeks you set (racing or not has no influence):
https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....d_id=17578
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| Lachi |
Posted on 22-08-2012 18:03
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That reminds me: Since years I try to get the unprotected version of that file so see the formula. |
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| cymarel |
Posted on 23-08-2012 15:08
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Under 23
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I couldn't get the file downloaded cause it said that it has been removed.. I'm making a similar thing in excel. It helps me plan the season, cause I'm trying no to mess with the Database directly because I've had to stop to many careers with game crashing.
It's not as easy as Lachi's Planner but I sleep better and it was fun doing it.
I wasn't planing on posting it but here it is. There are a few Macros to get the colors right on the Fittness Graph and the values have to be put manually, but everything else is automated. You just have to Input new riders in the team, select the groups and pick the races.
It also has a sheet to help you determine what riders fit you needs and budget for next season.
Here is the link: https://www.2share..._2014.html
It only works with the lattest excel. I would be happy to explain details to anyone interested.
Edited by cymarel on 23-08-2012 15:11
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 23-08-2012 17:17
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
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Attached the Fitness Planner, if it's still of any use for you 
And nice work! 
Edited by lluuiiggii on 23-08-2012 17:18
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| cymarel |
Posted on 23-08-2012 19:00
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Under 23
Posts: 54
Joined: 18-06-2012
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Thanks
Altought the buttons don't seem to be working in my computer (probably because I use a Mac) I can try to guess the fatigue form calculation by looking at the numbers in the hidden cells.
I had already begun doing something with the STA_Fitness_Interval table using Lachis editor, so I can use some sort of evaluation in my charts.
Thanks a lot.
Edited by cymarel on 23-08-2012 19:46
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| cymarel |
Posted on 23-08-2012 20:09
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Under 23
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Can you read the formulas in the hidden cells of the FatigueForme sheet on the planner?
I imagine that the values change when you input a different training intensity on row B. But for some reason (perhaps compatibility) when I open then it shows only text.
That would allow me to calculate fatigue and form with precision. At least leaving out training camp fatigue. |
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