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Confirmation of Division Changes 23-24
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 01-08-2024 11:59
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Team Manager
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Eden95 wrote:
Sad to see fintas go, he’s been around for a long time and was always a pleasure to talk with.
One name missing from continuation and renewals (presumably), is SN alive?
Might be 
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 01-08-2024 18:27
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Classics Specialist
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Sucks losing Fintas since he's a manager that has been in the game longer than me and has quite some history.
Also feels bad for Hosaur but I will say that I like the fact that we're giving a new manager a shot when Hosaur's activity was on the lower end of the spectrum, it sends the right message imo.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 01-08-2024 18:46
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Small Tour Specialist
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whitejersey wrote:
Sucks losing Fintas since he's a manager that has been in the game longer than me and has quite some history.
Also feels bad for Hosaur but I will say that I like the fact that we're giving a new manager a shot when Hosaur's activity was on the lower end of the spectrum, it sends the right message imo.
Yes should be sending the message with CT managerd instead of PT ones who have ZERO activity and wait till the last day to do every task
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| quadsas |
Posted on 01-08-2024 19:16
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roturn wrote:
Hosaur is another disband, which won't impact the promotion spots. After lower activity in the first season the CT shot is given a new manager.
I didnt clock it when it was posted but this is absolute horseshit, unless he actually quit the game which I dont believe he did from the wording.
Total joke. Before Nemo asked people to do renewals before August there were 6+ who hadnt done them by then. In what fucking world those get a pass when I probably hadnt seen a single post by them during the season
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 01-08-2024 22:17
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Kinda inclined to agree. I don’t think it’s fair to have different expectations for a newer manager compared to a more experienced manager - I do understand wanting newer managers to be as interactive as possible with the game, but even Hosaur probably had a significant deal more activity throughout the season than some others that get a free pass (and some of those across multiple seasons). If the MG universe is willing to let some managers do renewals, transfers and then clock out until next season, I think it’s a bit of a crook decision to boot him like this (if that is what has happened of course, unless it was his decision).
Edited by Eden95 on 01-08-2024 22:55
Indosat - ANZ HQ
"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 01-08-2024 22:24
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Tour de France Champion
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Agree with this. I'm definitely willing to give managers that have contributed a ton to the game over the years a little more slack—but then it feels quite unfair to kick out a newer manager with demonstrably more activity than some others, at least without a warning of some kind. If you're a first year manager and you see a bunch of others not posting since transfers and stay in the game, you may not realize the need to participate even more just to stay in the game.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 02-08-2024 02:07
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Directeur Sportif
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Agree with this. I'm definitely willing to give managers that have contributed a ton to the game over the years a little more slack—but then it feels quite unfair to kick out a newer manager with demonstrably more activity than some others, at least without a warning of some kind. If you're a first year manager and you see a bunch of others not posting since transfers and stay in the game, you may not realize the need to participate even more just to stay in the game.
I am with Eden, Quad and Bbl on this one, not sure the benefit of kicking out 1 CT manager (again assuming there isn't more to the story). And lets face it the average first year CT manager has a lot less to root for than a PT manager riding with top riders in big races.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 02-08-2024 06:06
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Classics Specialist
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To chime in on the Hosaur case - he did confirm he was staying in the continuation thread and wrote that he was ready for renewals, right? If that's the case, why expell him now? Sure, he wasn't one of the most active, but he did confirm participation and to expell him afterwards is a bit cruel if you ask me
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| Ezeefreak |
Posted on 02-08-2024 07:46
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Domestique
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Maybe everyone can calm down a bit. We dont know anyzthing if he did any tasks we need to do so far.
if you remember my post from the Suggestions thread you know my position and to be honest I am somehow glad some actions were taken and i trust that these are justified.
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 02-08-2024 09:39
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He didn't.
If as a first year manager you can't even make the effort to make a total of ten comments without any good reason, in addition to not following any of the off-season threads, it makes sense to me that you are disbanded. I think it might also be a sign to some other 'older' managers that this should really be their last chance, and they should really show they are part of the community (again), before suffering the same fate next time.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 19:22
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 02-08-2024 10:13
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
And lets face it the average first year CT manager has a lot less to root for than a PT manager riding with top riders in big races.
Not going to wade into the rest of this discussion about activity and punishments and fairness because I'll get a headache, but this is an interesting point. I'm not aiming this at you UU, as it's a sentiment I've seen plenty before and I know it's not exactly the point you're making, but: It seems to me like a self-fulfilling prophecy to say "CT has less to root for, and so will see less activity." If more managers were more active, it would feel like a better division and community, and so then people would feel they had more to root for, and be more active. If everyone feels that they have nothing to root for, and we aren't making them feel motivated, then they will stay that way.
I remember in my second season, still in the 2017 CT, when I started reporting, I made an offhand comment in the reporter's forum that I'll "try claim C1 races for a while because I'm not ready for big races yet" and some long-term manager (tsmoha? Roturn?) said "there are no big and small races in MG, every division matters the same". And I think us CT managers took that ethos to heart in how we approached being at 'the bottom of the barrel'.
Now, obviously this "every race is as important" motto is not always entirely true - PT gets new routes every year (these days), more RDs, longer reports, and, as they have all the real-life most prestigious races, we assign them that same prestige in MG. But, as others I'm sure can attest from that 2017 CT class, we didn't care that the Tour of Bulgaria wasn't the Tour de France. We were super active, had active HQs and discussion threads, made previews for ourselves, and had a grand old time in the CT. I've been from outside the CT Top 10 to the PT and 2017 is still one of the absolute best seasons I've ever had enjoyment-wise. We saw that all the established managers said "PCT is the best division", and so every race had the prestige of leading to promotion there. We became reporters, which I know for me taught me a lot about the MG world and invested me in the upper divisions, so that I wanted to join them. The dream of Areruya might have started reporting the 2017 Tour de Suisse and seeing the joy cio93 got from the breakthrough of Herklotz.
But if everyone else in the CT wasn't active? I wouldn't have written a huge solo preview of every team, kept posting in my HQ, in their HQs, and in many race discussion threads, talking to myself like an insane person. So you're not wrong that it's probably a reason, but it clearly isn't a given that the CT has to be barely scraping by until you manage to join a more active division and then you can start having fun. I don't know what the solution is to get back there so I'm really just waffling - maybe us PT and PCT managers need to get involved in the CT, write some previews, give some longer reports and attention.
But if UU is right, that there are CT managers who would be more active but think they don't have enough to root for, then a) they need to recognise that's bullshit and collectively make their own fun because the CT is just as much a division as any other, and b) maybe all the other managers also need to show them that the CT matters by giving their races some attention too. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 02-08-2024 10:24
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World Champion
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I trust those making these kind of decisions. I don't feel any need to second guess or question whether it's the right thing or not for the game.
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 02-08-2024 21:24
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Well, I do trust the decision makers, too, given that they surely have more insight than I do. But yeah, it does feel somewhat weird that the "activity" criterion is actually applied, even though it's clearly stated in the application conditions. So I don't think this forced disband is wrong, in particular if Hosaur hasn't even started renewals.
However, it also feels a bit weird that this is the only team the criterion is applied to (with fintas just being unreachable it seems, sadly). Other managers didn't post more - some even for several years now - and it didn't have any consequences. What's also somewhat ununderstandable to me is that apparently Vesuvio will continue, even though there's no post pointing in this direction, neither in the continuation nor in the renewals thread. Guess there's something going on behind the scenes, which I personally don't find very transparent - but I think it's been similar in other years already. Not meant to be an offense to SN, but if a team is confirmed to continue it could just be confirmed by someone.
Last but not least: Thanks to jandal for your post - for me it was pretty much like that, too! Every race matters, no matter the division - especially when you're winning 
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| seancoll |
Posted on 02-08-2024 22:26
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Domestique
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As one of the newer members, I hope that no matter who joins and/or continues, we see active managers over the next year. That goes to say thank you to everyone reporting, working behind the scenes on calendar, stage making, organization, rankings, and so much more. There is lots of countless work and no easy decisions made along the way. Many additional thanks to the numerous managers who helped show me how to be involved this year through example and support! There's a huge difference between you all, whose teams, riders, and styles I know immediately by name, versus those who I did not realize were even involved in the game.
It just seems like the best way to show respect to everyone is to be involved throughout the season and most importantly, complete tasks on time. From the looks of things, we're behind schedule to last year (not that it's a major concern? - not my call I guess). Maybe the best way forward from here is to take these decisions and help drive folks to finish their renewals, work on their graphics, and submit their goals.
Let's move forward to the season, excited for what may be to come in the upcoming year. We all want an engaged, competitive, and exciting year ahead.
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 02-08-2024 22:53
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jandal7 wrote:
Now, obviously this "every race is as important" motto is not always entirely true - PT gets new routes every year (these days), more RDs, longer reports,
No offense taken. I don't disagree with any of what you said, that CT is a great division and agree it is just as important. It was so important to me I spent 4 seasons there.
I quote this one line just to say the thoroughness of my reports is never correlated with the division. It is generally only correlated with the amount of reports I am doing.
But I don't think any of Jandal's comments about CT changes my point. If a manager's interest is flagging it feels like having a team you have built over years with high quality riders and racing famous races might be more reason to draw you back in than having a team with no history led by a 34-yo retread racing the Tour of Vancouver. Therefore, I find it easy to to believe a CT manager's activity level might not be predictive of their future activity level. And that generally giving folks 2 seasons to prove themselves makes sense. If steps like renewals are neglected that becomes a different issue.
Finally, I am not sure whether you "trust the decision makers" is a criteria on whether you should weigh in on an issue. I too trust the decision makers, but I don't think that makes it unreasonable for me to an express an opinion on a topic if it it done in a respectful manner.
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 03-08-2024 04:43
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
jandal7 wrote:
Now, obviously this "every race is as important" motto is not always entirely true - PT gets new routes every year (these days), more RDs, longer reports,
I quote this one line just to say the thoroughness of my reports is never correlated with the division. It is generally only correlated with the amount of reports I am doing.
Absolutely fair and wouldn't say it's something I noticed from you in your reporting - I should have said some races in the PT have sometimes longer reports as that's what I meant to say. I think when I was reporting I was pretty good but definitely guilty of giving higher category races above average attention (but not giving lower category races below average attention, if you understand my meaning), and I know others have as well.
As for the rest of it, I do see you point and I guess for me it's a chicken or the egg thing with regards to CT enjoyment and manager activity. However the point about team history you raised is definitely a good one - I didn't consider that but no doubt it's a huge factor and has changed my view of the situation slightly now.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 05-08-2024 10:40
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2666
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Doing the graphics, can someone confirm my list is correct/complete, thank you!
| Sykkel_Freak | Assa Abloy | PCT↑PT | | roturn | Fastned | PCT↑PT | | Fabianski | Jura GIANTS | PCT↑PT | | Nemolito | Oxxo - Frisby (Los Pollos Hermanos) | PCT↑PT | | jandal7 | Xero Racing | PCT↑PT | | - | | | | SotD | ELCO - ABEA | PT↓PCT | | Scorchio | ISA - Hexacta | PT↓PCT | | Marcovdw | Minions | PT↓PCT | | - | | | | kandesbunzler26 | Ekoi - Le Creuset | CT↑PCT | | Blasing | JEWA TIROL Cycling Team | CT↑PCT | | DarkWolf | Manada Coyote | CT↑PCT | | Laurens147 | Lotto-Caloi (Crabbe-CC Chevigny) | CT↑PCT | | TheManxMissile | Podium Ambition | CT↑PCT | | Mantez | Llapi-Vita (Stela-Vita) | CT↑PCT | | Bjartne | Tafjord Kraft | CT↑PCT | | - | | | | tsmoha | Amaysim Australia.com | DISBAND (PT) | | fintas | Binance | DISBAND (PT) | | Hosaur | Adidas-Eurocash | DISBAND (CT) | | Shonak | Strava | DISBAND (CT) | | YMeister | Mercatone Uno - Weba | DISBAND (CT) | | Shinyshinx | Saeco | DISBAND (CT) | | - | | | | Lewism89 | 777-Caesars Palace Team Vegas | DNS (CT) | | Jarno Deleenheer | Austrian Airlines - Logitech | DNS (CT) | | lenny12 | Sabaton's Steel Pedalers | DNS (CT) | | - | | | | SportingNonsense | EA Vesuvio | | | Roman | Moser - Sygic | |
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 05-08-2024 11:26
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Team Manager
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OlegTinkov wrote:
Doing the graphics, can someone confirm my list is correct/complete, thank you!
Roman has confirmed his continuation in the thread.
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| DarkWolf |
Posted on 08-08-2024 08:34
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Protected Rider
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I am really sorry to see a long time manager leaving the game and to see my team promoting as a consequence. But I guess things are not always ideal, so although I would have liked fintas to continue I'll take this promotion spot and see what I can make of it.
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