|
Race Routes Discussion
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 17:55
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
For finishing on Arcalis, its a very good stage. The finale is intense and much different to 2009 - Sky can use those climbs to split the peloton completely. We dont need another DH-fnish since they are finishing at Lac de Payolle in stage 7 and also downhill in stage 8. A MTF on Arcalis with Comella and Beixalis is super fine IMO.
The stage to Culoz could have been better, but you can't again everything. The Tour is super mountain-heavy and we have 4 descent finishes already so its fine to include a little flat, altho it probably will hamper the action. But it creates opportunities for others.
Indeed.That's the problem.
Also the ITT of stage 13 should be close to 60 km. |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 17:57
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
For finishing on Arcalis, its a very good stage. The finale is intense and much different to 2009 - Sky can use those climbs to split the peloton completely. We dont need another DH-fnish since they are finishing at Lac de Payolle in stage 7 and also downhill in stage 8. A MTF on Arcalis with Comella and Beixalis is super fine IMO.
The stage to Culoz could have been better, but you can't again everything. The Tour is super mountain-heavy and we have 4 descent finishes already so its fine to include a little flat, altho it probably will hamper the action. But it creates opportunities for others.
Indeed.That's the problem.
Also the ITT of stage 13 should be close to 60 km.
Your are basically just writing what 90% of the CN forum says |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 15-04-2016 18:26
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
I actually think this year's Tour route is pretty good (although obviously we are yet to see the profiles for all the stages) and there's not too much to criticise. The only stage I really don't like is the stage to Le Bettex, it's pretty unnecessary really given the amount of mountain stages in the Tour this year - 3 Pyrenees stages plus Ventoux plus Grand Colombier plus the MTT plus 3 Alps including this one - that's 9 mountain stages in total! Stage 20 looks like they're trying to imitate Stage 20 of last year's Vuelta, which will be great if it turns out anything like that (having a descent or 'combo' (i.e. Mortirolo-Aprica, Finestre-Sestriere) finish as the last mountain stage is almost always a good thing imo, and they've done a decent job of creating a run-in to Arcalis, so much better than the 2009 borefest.
I think criticising things like having the finish of the Grand Colombier stage at Culoz rather than Anglefort is just being too picky - and if even I think it's being too picky then it probably is  - there's only 14km from the top of the climb to the finish, in comparison the summit of the Mortirolo is 33km from Aprica, which is basically a flat road, for instance.
|
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 18:31
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
I actually think this year's Tour route is pretty good (although obviously we are yet to see the profiles for all the stages) and there's not too much to criticise. The only stage I really don't like is the stage to Le Bettex, it's pretty unnecessary really given the amount of mountain stages in the Tour this year - 3 Pyrenees stages plus Ventoux plus Grand Colombier plus the MTT plus 3 Alps including this one - that's 9 mountain stages in total! Stage 20 looks like they're trying to imitate Stage 20 of last year's Vuelta, which will be great if it turns out anything like that (having a descent or 'combo' (i.e. Mortirolo-Aprica, Finestre-Sestriere) finish as the last mountain stage is almost always a good thing imo, and they've done a decent job of creating a run-in to Arcalis, so much better than the 2009 borefest.
I think criticising things like having the finish of the Grand Colombier stage at Culoz rather than Anglefort is just being too picky - and if even I think it's being too picky then it probably is - there's only 14km from the top of the climb to the finish, in comparison the summit of the Mortirolo is 33km from Aprica, which is basically a flat road, for instance. Yeah,the criticising of the Culoz stage is too picky after a seond thought.Because it is a very good stage nevertheless. |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 15-04-2016 18:37
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Nice to see a revival of this thread btw; it's a subject I find very interesting and I hope we can carry on debating race routes. Ideally I'd like to have a Race Design Thread a la CN Forum but I'm not sure there's enough interest on this forum.
I do have a question for the time being though. Given that it's early enough that our ideas aren't really being influenced by the rumours circling the internet yet, what stages and climbs would you like to see in the 100th Giro route? Personally, I'm hoping they go full Zomegnan 2011 and produce a brutal route stacked with multi-mountain stages (might post some ideas at some point)
|
| |
|
|
| togo95 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 18:46
|
Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
I do have a question for the time being though. Given that it's early enough that our ideas aren't really being influenced by the rumours circling the internet yet, what stages and climbs would you like to see in the 100th Giro route? Personally, I'm hoping they go full Zomegnan 2011 and produce a brutal route stacked with multi-mountain stages (might post some ideas at some point)
I am hoping for a proper sterrrato stage in Tuscany, Fauniera, Crostis and a multi-mountain stage in Dolomites. Tbh, Italy has so many great options, I don't mind what particular climbs they use. Just hope there will be some hard hilly stages, as there most often are in Giro.
|
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 18:59
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
Nice to see a revival of this thread btw; it's a subject I find very interesting and I hope we can carry on debating race routes. Ideally I'd like to have a Race Design Thread a la CN Forum but I'm not sure there's enough interest on this forum.
I do have a question for the time being though. Given that it's early enough that our ideas aren't really being influenced by the rumours circling the internet yet, what stages and climbs would you like to see in the 100th Giro route? Personally, I'm hoping they go full Zomegnan 2011 and produce a brutal route stacked with multi-mountain stages (might post some ideas at some point) Alpe di Pampeago.Exactly the last 100 km of this stage.
Monte Colmo with Monte Padrio before it.
Fedaia-Pordoi(can be a descent finish as well)
Monte Cimone.
Presolana(can be Monte Pora can be Cantoniera)
A sterrato stage.
Blockhaus MTF or Lanciano-Chieti is great
Edited by Forever the Best on 15-04-2016 21:49
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 17:34
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:01
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
togo95 wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
I do have a question for the time being though. Given that it's early enough that our ideas aren't really being influenced by the rumours circling the internet yet, what stages and climbs would you like to see in the 100th Giro route? Personally, I'm hoping they go full Zomegnan 2011 and produce a brutal route stacked with multi-mountain stages (might post some ideas at some point)
I am hoping for a proper sterrrato stage in Tuscany, Fauniera, Crostis and a multi-mountain stage in Dolomites. Tbh, Italy has so many great options, I don't mind what particular climbs they use. Just hope there will be some hard hilly stages, as there most often are in Giro. Ah,Fauniera as well.Forgot it. |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:03
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stelvio - Mortirolo - Gavia, finish in Bormio
Fauniera - Sampeyre - Agnel - Chianale
Also the Crostis-Zoncolan combo, Passo Rollo, a mad Dolomitees stages with Giau, Fedaia etc.,
And how about a stage on Edelweiss?! |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:07
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Also, am I the only one actually liking the Vuelta? I somehow like just stacking Murito's/MTF's for the sake of having fun, to differ from Giro and Vuelta and they have clearly enjoyed big name presence especially the last years. Its kind of a rematch. |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:13
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Stelvio - Mortirolo - Gavia, finish in Bormio
Fauniera - Sampeyre - Agnel - Chianale
Also the Crostis-Zoncolan combo, Passo Rollo, a mad Dolomitees stages with Giau, Fedaia etc.,
And how about a stage on Edelweiss?! Crostis-Zoncolan would be great as well.
Bormio finish is great as well.
Also Chianale would be another great stage.But are you going over Agnel while finishing in Chianale?Because you can't if you come from the Sampeyre side as far as I know
Also can you post a profile of Edelweiss?
Edited by Forever the Best on 15-04-2016 19:16
|
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:14
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Also, am I the only one actually liking the Vuelta? I somehow like just stacking Murito's/MTF's for the sake of having fun, to differ from Giro and Vuelta and they have clearly enjoyed big name presence especially the last years. Its kind of a rematch. Balneario de Panticosa would be cool for Vuelta.
Also they should go to Mount Teide<3
Pico Veleta as well.
Edited by Forever the Best on 15-04-2016 19:19
|
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:36
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Crostis-Zoncolan is a real possibility actually, I think I read somewhere that they were paving or have paved Crostis, and as it's a road that in effect loops back on itself and doesn't really go anywhere maybe it's some RCS influence.
Riis123 wrote:
Stelvio - Mortirolo - Gavia, finish in Bormio
Fauniera - Sampeyre - Agnel - Chianale
Also the Crostis-Zoncolan combo, Passo Rollo, a mad Dolomitees stages with Giau, Fedaia etc.,
And how about a stage on Edelweiss?!
Fauniera-Sampeyre-Chianale is one of the stages I so want to be repeated in the Giro at some point, that was an amazing stage.
Edelweiss, is that the one near Bolzano that's hellish steep? Or am I thinking of a different climb?
Also, Stelvio-Mortirolo-Gavia reminds me of the 100th Giro I designed for the competition on the CN Forum a few months ago, which contained a stage with that combo:
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:44
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
I didnt even know it was raced (I assume it was 2003 then, youtube ftw).
Yes, that one I know from a variant in PCM 2006. Its not AS insane as Scanupia, but I think its still 15% average at 7 km or something. Me and my buddies are still playing it. I have created the hardest GT ever which we occasionally play. Valverde, Vino and Basso, its amazing. Rasmussen obviously have 84 MTN and 50 TT in that database. I might even post it here, I have got a lot of inspirations from the variants of the Tour and Giro.
Oh, thats a beautiful stage, but I like your Dolomite stage better. The hard one, its a beauty for the eye. |
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 19:55
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Also they should use the Tro-Bro Leon roads in TDF
Also Stromeon,your Pordoi and Sestriere stages are great.Also your stage 13 is very good.
Maielletta-Guardiagrele combo.Very nice.And the Tre Cime MTT is great as well. |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 15-04-2016 20:04
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Thanks, the Dolomiti tappone is definitely my favourite stage too - I think Stelvio-Mortirolo-Gavia is too much overkill to be feasible irl and the Sestriere stage, while potentially interesting, is basically the famous Fausto Coppi 1949 stage with the long long descent into Pinerolo cut off the end to suit it better to modern racing.
The Dolomites proper are an area that link climbs together so well you can create truly ridiculous stages. One I was plotting the other day just for lolz: Borgo Valsugana-Manghen-Pampeago-Costalunga-Sella-Gardena-Valparola-Giau-Fedaia-Pordoi-Campolongo-Corvara is only just over 250km with 10 passes!
|
| |
|
|
| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-04-2016 20:13
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Also, am I the only one actually liking the Vuelta? I somehow like just stacking Murito's/MTF's for the sake of having fun, to differ from Giro and Vuelta and they have clearly enjoyed big name presence especially the last years. Its kind of a rematch. Answering your question about the Vuelta.I was very bored in the mountain stages last year and the best stage was when I couldn't watch(stage 20).Stage 11 was also pretty cool but I was a bit disappointed.
Come to think of it in the 2014 edition La Farrapona,Lagos de Covadonga and Aramon Valdelinares were boring as well until the big attacks.
And all these Murito's are too much.At least they should have a new murito.But no.they are repeating Pena Cabarga(last used in 2013),Naranco(last used in 2013) and La Camperona(last used in 2014).Mirador de Ezaro is repeated again(used in 2012 as a HTF,used in 2013 as a pass).Also Formigal is used again(last used in 2013).Aubisque stage is not that good either but at least it has some hard climbs before.
Mind you,Naranco can be a great stage if done great.But they do a horrible job.
At least Aitana is back,and stages 12-13 are good. |
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 20:29
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
Nice to see a revival of this thread btw; it's a subject I find very interesting and I hope we can carry on debating race routes. Ideally I'd like to have a Race Design Thread a la CN Forum but I'm not sure there's enough interest on this forum.
The 1949 stage saw Coppi completely obliterate the field.
They planned to do it for the 100 year Giro in 2009 but it was scrapped and replaced by a bland light version.
mentioned already ofcourse
|
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 15-04-2016 20:36
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
They should do Mortirolo in combo with Santa Cristina again like in the 90's!
Blockhaus also but that was already honoured in '09.
|
| |
|
|
| matt17br |
Posted on 15-04-2016 21:14
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Btw I know Edelweiss, this is the profile I think:
|
| |
|
