|
2016 Planning: Time Bonuses
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-11-2015 11:24
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
This season F1 style time bonuses of 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1 were introduced for the flat sprinters stage races. All other races had 20-12-8.
Do you think this should be changed?
|
| |
|
|
| roturn |
Posted on 21-11-2015 11:35
|
Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
|
Same method imo but possibly we could make a list of races that use this system pre planning. This would avoid questions about it in later discussion threads when you can no longer make changes. |
| |
|
|
| sgdanny |
Posted on 21-11-2015 11:39
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3591
Joined: 18-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
|
Definitely keep the same.
A pan flat race with no TT's, hills, mountains and cobbles should go to the sprinters, in order to give them a chance to win GC's
Also perhaps make time difference lower, but raise the number to 5 first riders get bonifications?
|
| |
|
|
| Bikex |
Posted on 21-11-2015 12:09
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7255
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
|
I think 10-6-4 for normal stage races could work better, as 20 seconds for the winner is too much of a gap for my liking.
Definitely in favour of keeping the sprinter stage races system, though. |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 21-11-2015 12:13
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
I really liked the way the new time bonuses worked in the flat stage races, so definitely keep them. If anything, time bonuses for non-flat races could perhaps be lowered, but they seem to be working well as is so I don't really think we need a change.
|
| |
|
|
| SotD |
Posted on 21-11-2015 12:26
|
World Champion
Posts: 12187
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 2980.00
|
I think it worked pretty well... In races such as Qatar I think I would make the TT longer though. Only Coppel actually had a shot at a top 10.
Also it is extremely important that these time bonuses are added to the calender in some way. Now I ended up getting what I came for in Qatar, but had I known that the time bonuses where to everyone in top 10 and then a short epilogue in the end, I wouldn't have brought Coppel there. So it was luck in bad luck I guess...
But from what I have experienced it worked pretty well.
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 21-11-2015 12:27
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
I would prefer a uniform system. Same for all races. 20 to winner sounds good to me. |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 02:12
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Roman |
Posted on 21-11-2015 12:52
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4386
Joined: 29-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
I would like F1 style system in all races. That would mean stage results would be more important than ever. It would be then needed to make for example longer TT in some races, but I think it could work nicely. Or at least in GTs I think it could work to have these F1 boni.
Or as I see I am the only one to support that option, I think it would be at least worth it to give bonifications to more places in other than sprint races. A system like 10 6 4 2 1 may not be too bad for other than sprint races. Easy to remember, not too many seconds given as bonifications, even through more riders would get them.
Agree with the need to have a clearer picture what race have which bonification system.
|
| |
|
|
| fintas |
Posted on 21-11-2015 14:14
|
Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2602
Joined: 21-03-2008
PCM$: 1200.00
|
I think that the method used this season worked almost flawlessly and when so you should not change what is right
|
| |
|
|
| Crommy |
Posted on 21-11-2015 16:01
|
World Champion
Posts: 10018
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Does the AI react depending on the number of positions with time bonuses?
Because if it does, I'd prefer more places getting time bonuses, as it will mean riders are more likely to compete for places which mean more management game points
|
| |
|
|
| Margh Norway |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:13
|
Sprinter
Posts: 1507
Joined: 23-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
Crommy wrote:
Does the AI react depending on the number of positions with time bonuses?
Because if it does, I'd prefer more places getting time bonuses, as it will mean riders are more likely to compete for places which mean more management game points
It does. At least when a group of three is in the breakaway and there're KOM or intermediate sprint points left to grab.
My proposal is: create four or five different classification xml, e.g. one for each terrain mixture of stage race and use different kinds of point systems to KOM- and Intermediate sprints, too. (I can create the XML-files if wanted)
Advantages could be:
- better control over jersey rankings, e.g. it is a little easier to prevent the GC-winner winning green- or KOM-jersey, too.
- more activity in the bunch
- maybe even more competition within the different rankings
|
| |
|
|
| jt1109 |
Posted on 21-11-2015 17:52
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3214
Joined: 23-07-2008
PCM$: 400.00
|
Same as last year can't remember a race were I think the time bonus needed altering as Mountain stages seem to split up themselves possibly hilly stages races may need a slight bit more |
| |
|
|
| sammyt93 |
Posted on 21-11-2015 23:43
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
|
I'd like to see flat races with a prologue or short TT allow a Prologue specialist a shot at winning them and hanging on against the sprinters as that would again give a little bit of diversity in the points scorers and season winners, As SotD mentioned Qatar seems a good example, but I'd rather see the time bonus' reduced then make the TT longer as making the TT longer favours the actual TT men over the Prologue experts.
Then again I might be biased by the fact I own Chavanne but seeing as I plan to loan him out this year I don't think that plays into it much.
I'd suggest maybe 7-5-3-2-1 for the first 5 places as that still gives an extra bonus to those that make the podium for Flat Stage Races with a short Prologue or Epilogue, 15-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for Flat Stage Races with a long TT and the F1 system we used this year for Flat Stage Races without a TT then leave the 20-12-8 for Mountain races and maybe look at increasing the placing's further down for Hilly Stage Races so it's something like 20-15-10-7-4-2-1?
|
| |
|
|
| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 21-11-2015 23:52
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5533
Joined: 12-06-2013
PCM$: 500.00
|
If Mountains/Hills is going to be different from flat then there would be two situations. In Mountainous/Hilly races I would prefer there be very small, if any time bonuses cause it makes for thrilling, interesting and entertaining GC racing. But if the race includes a TT then it should at least have small bonuses because I don't want to see a 72MO/78TT rider beating a 78MO/72TT rider in the GC of a climbers race.
By the way, I am happy with the current system which seems to work fine.
Edited by Luis Leon Sanchez on 21-11-2015 23:54
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 21-11-2015 23:53
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
If it ain't broke, don't fix. This seasons system has worked, and i can't remember any issues with it at all. So lets keep things as they are 
|
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-11-2015 23:59
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
@sammy
Trying to shoehorn a sprinter's stage race into a race for both sprinters and time triallists is totally the wrong approach. Tour of Qatar is a sprinter's stage race, and the only such race in PT. The short TT was added to increase the amount of stage opportunities for time triallists during the season, and to cause some minor gaps, and managers have got the wrong impression if they think it was added to give time triallists a chance to win the race. It is more likely that the TT will be removed from Qatar altogether, than be extended.
It is true however that PT is the only division which does not have a stage race specifically suited towards time trial specialists, and I have already made plans to address this.
---
In terms of time bonuses in general. I think it has worked well this year to give a fairer GC result in sprint stage races than when only 3 got bonuses. Perhaps hill stage races are an area that could be improved, particularly in PCT/CT - where it often seems to be that less actual time gaps occur.
|
| |
|
|
| knockout |
Posted on 22-11-2015 00:07
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 400.00
|
The current system seems to work great so I'd prefer we'd keep it.
Maybe reduce the size of time bonuses for non-flat races to 10-7-5-3-2 or similar.
An exact list of races that use each time bonuses rule is a must though. I remember there were a couple of races where it wasn't obvious if it F1 bonuses were used e.g. when there was a prologue in a otherwise flat race.
(Kinda zable'd here but i am not gonna remove it as i think a list can not harm and would be useful)
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
| |
|
|
| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 22-11-2015 00:12
|
Team Manager
Posts: 33046
Joined: 08-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Yeh, the time bonuses system wasn't well communicated last year, and this thread is the first step in addressing that this year! Races will of course be listed.
|
| |
|
|
| sammyt93 |
Posted on 22-11-2015 00:46
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
|
@SN I appreciate that Qatar is meant as a sprinters stage race and not one for sprinters/ TTists but I decided to use that as an example rather than try and find a flat race with a prologue before it because I thought if one doesn't instantly spring to mind for me then if I found one and named it then others wouldn't necessarily make the connection either. It might just be me being tired that means 1 hasn't come to mind straight away though.
Closest I can come up with is Baltic Chain Tour without the cobbles on the TT but I'm sure there must be one that illustrates the point better.
|
| |
|
|
| Smowz |
Posted on 22-11-2015 07:36
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6479
Joined: 09-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Whilst I was caught with my pants down and it all hanging out in Qatar (thankfully not in Norway ) - I really liked the formula one style bonifications idea.
It entices a really nice sprinters battle royale - rather than the old 20-12-8 well no point bothering with that if I have to put my 82, 83 SPR guy against the BewBastard, Frankenstiens monster, Swift, Pokerstars hippy bus train type thinking. I like that the top five in Qatar was the five most consistent sprinters over the week.
I guess some might complain of the risk of sprint train hangers on grabbing bonifications but this simply shows someone has mastered the dark art.
A good change lets keep it I say.
I also think 20-12-8 time boni's are good to keep, though it does always make TT's less decisive (mountain stages generally get decent gaps). I would love to see slightly more dynamism there - though I think one thing we should be looking at is moving TT's to early portions of stage races. But that needs to go into general ideas.
|
| |
|
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
