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ICL16 - General | Development
OZrocker
Great to see a new season getting underway. Don't think we need a CT Grand Tour for the reasons already stated, but hopefully some of the races that the AI supposedly stuffed up last year can be replaced.

Minor rant on steals below. TL;DR, I totally agree with trekbmc and Shonak on this one.

Spoiler
I didn't take part in the steals last year because I saw it being a contentious issue that many people weren't in favour of, but I will certainly be taking part this year. It's totally unfair to have a system where the teams who have a great rider can effectively lock them away for multiple seasons regardless of what another team may be prepared to offer.

Obviously this needs to be regulated by the person running the game and Bikex has stated several times that there are measures in place to make sure people don't abuse the system. With that being considered, I don't think there should be any serious concerns out of this. If you want a rider badly enough, you're just going to have to pay a fair price for him, simple as that.

The argument that I really don't understand is that people have "worked so hard to get" a certain rider. Really? You either did a deal with another player which resulted in you actually getting that rider for a full year or put a number into a spreadsheet. It's not that hard! Admittedly, some managers might be harder to deal with, and that only makes steals a better idea so that we can bypass that.


As it is, I've only done what I think are small and rational price rises for my steal attempts and would be very surprised if more than one or two of them actually work. You're all free to make a steal offer on one of my riders if you want to Wink

Now for some tributes to the retiring riders. Firstly, to all the dopers - goodbye and good riddance (you know who you are). Some potentially good riders gone with Niemiec, Zirbel, Gène and Rujano leaving. Special mentions to Christian Poos (that poor guy, what an unfortunate name) and 5xNZ champion McCauley.

But most of all, we farewell Harald Totschnig, Victor Niño and Lex Nederlof. Looks like these old guys couldn't handle another season after being in every race last year Sad
 
The Rider
OZrocker wrote:

It's totally unfair to have a system where the teams who have a great rider can effectively lock them away for multiple seasons regardless of what another team may be prepared to offer.


Exactly. I am bit worried for people's reasoning levels who think it is okay to horde the very best riders in the game for three seasons, declare they aren't willing to sell them, and then have a half-hearted attempt at virtually intimidating people by saying 'duh, there will be revenge'.

The notion that steals are more immoral than keeping a rider locked away is just ridiculous, to me.

---

Nice idea to keep Telecom Namibia afloat, Bikex. If some people don't turn up in the transfer window, or even if they do, we might form some more teams like that afterwards with what is left over after all of the transfers, especially if CT needs propping up with more teams.
 
Ollfardh
I just think a lot of negativity can be attributed to naming it a "steal". TMM's old game had a steal draft round, for those who remember it. You don't "steal" a rider here, you pay more then the other team, who then has a chance to match the offer (or even lower if you had that rider for a while).
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
TheManxMissile
Ollfardh wrote:
I just think a lot of negativity can be attributed to naming it a "steal". TMM's old game had a steal draft round, for those who remember it.


And as i recall people on the whole thought it was a really fun idea and enjoyed that round a lot. But yes, if it wasn't called "Steal" but something else i doubt it would be as big an issue.
If you want a rider you pay for him. Otherwise clearly the other team values him more and the riders leaves for the bigger paycheck. Plus the team losing a ride now has a chunk of wage back to play with
Suck it up and move on. It's not like your team is going to go from 1st to 45th because someone tempted a rider away from your team.
i.imgur.com/UmX5YX1.jpgi.imgur.com/iRneKpI.jpgi.imgur.com/fljmGSP.jpgi.imgur.com/qV5ItIc.jpgimgur.com/dr2BAI6.jpgimgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpgi.imgur.com/C1rG9BW.jpgi.imgur.com/sEDS7gr.jpg
 
dominox
As a new team I will also wait until FA. Maybe I will find someone with average more than 70 :lol:.
 
Ollfardh
Bikex wrote:
Sorry for the double post but I thought you'd like to know how the budget was calculated:

WT teams have a base budget of 7250, CT teams of 4500. To that various stuff is added.
First part is the season rankings. A team will get based on the final prestige rankings, points awarded based on the following formula:
OWN POINTS/WINNER POINTS * 900. So the winner will get 900 a team with 50% of the points of Gazprom gets 450.
Spoiler
Gazprom Cycling Team900
CarbonSports Cycling p/b Lightweight892
Prorace - Camtel815
Ecopetrol - Vivo760
Liberty Seguros - Würth684
Allianz - BMW Cycling Team654
Air China638
Filliers - Mora Pro Cycling Team609
LA Aluminios - Antarte496
Celesio Pro Cycling486
Avia - Orlen Oil477
LIUCPBM3CGIPBT453
Vegeta Cycling Team446
Team Bunzl - Centrica432
Smartone Cycling Team427
Eurosport - Pepsi425
Telecom Namibia Cycling Team408
Fiskars Cycling356
Bulgaria Air349
Team Parmalat - HTC340
Saeco - Cannondale337
Team Istanbul Cycling318
ExxonMobil - Geberit290
Fred Whitton Race Team286
Swiss Life Team281
SAP - Bianchi269
Team Cymru Wales267
TVM - Sanyo213
Air Baltic - Rietumu Racing195
Velux - Saxo - IBM191
Petronas - HTC Pro Cycling Team188
La Gazzetta Dello Sport - Gaerne159
Peugeot Cycling Team156
Geox - Kalev Cycling Project155
Rapha - Rouleur Pro Cycling83






So the Dev team results have no influence on the budget?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
trekbmc
It increases it by 1200, I think, it includes it in the file.



"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
 
Ollfardh
I'm talking about the results of the dev team Smile
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
 
Cyclotron
Some CT races had too few teams participating last season, which caused a huge amount of breakaway victories. Could work out better with the new AI though. Maybe adding a couple of local national teams to have at least 15 or 16 teams participating in every race would be a good idea or simply adding some normal teams like the rider proposed.

About the whole stealing discussion: When you compare the first and the second season, you'll see that the gap between WT and CT level grew. The new managers weren't less competent, the established teams simply had a huge advantage of already having good riders and there were only limited options on the transfer market. I don't see this getting any better this season, probably even worse. That's why we need stealing, it's a good way of making the game a bit more fair and balanced.

Happy to see Ecopetrol managed to bag the second biggest budget for next season. Also interesting to see 4 riders at 82 Mountain now, it's going to be a hard fight for the grand tours. Can't complain about that, I kind of have started this arms race. Majka, Bardet and Barguil are also slowly closing in on the big 4, the two french free agents can surely look forward to profitable new contracts.
 
Bikex
Ah great the whole steal discussion again. I feel like everything was said already, so please just move on if you don't like the concept. If you don't want to loose a rider, just pay the wage he demands, then it won't make too much of a difference anyways. I admit it was a bit unfortunate to name it steals, because they aren't really steals, more like outside offers.

@bwiggins: I hope trekbmc sent you an understandable PM. If there are any questions left, feel free to PM me or ask them here.
Basically you have a budget now, with that you'll need to sign riders for your team. The first part of that are the steals that are ongoing now, then there are renewals for already existing teams. After that you'll be able to sign free agents from the db or make transfers with other teams.

@Ollfardh: Development teams have no effect on the budget. The purpose of them is solely to develop talents.

Some CT races had too few teams participating last season, which caused a huge amount of breakaway victories. Could work out better with the new AI though. Maybe adding a couple of local national teams to have at least 15 or 16 teams participating in every race would be a good idea or simply adding some normal teams like the rider proposed.


I think it's a good idea to add national teams, smaller regional teams, but that would need some work with planning, so I'd need help with that from others. We'll see about that after the transfer season. Wink
 
Selwink
For new managers, you can get a small budget bonus if your team is from one of the following nations/regions in the spoiler.


I may have missed something, but I didn't see this back in the budget for this season.


Will take a look at steals today if French class is boring, otherwise tomorrow.
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Bikex
Selwink wrote:
For new managers, you can get a small budget bonus if your team is from one of the following nations/regions in the spoiler.


I may have missed something, but I didn't see this back in the budget for this season.


Thanks for reminding me Embarassed
Will add that for the next sheet.
 
matt17br
Just back home. Looks like Alitalia is the WT team with the least money, meh Frown

That's unfortunate to know we did so bad in our focus races, I think I remember myself picking Milano-Torino, Milano-Sanremo, Strade Bianche, Lombardia and Giro, and as far as I remember I fullfilled at least 3 of those objectives, but of course I was totally wrong...
(Former) Manager of pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2020/Micros/gen.png Generali pcmdaily.com/images/mg/2020/Micros/gen.png
 
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OZrocker
My focus and race selection were awful too, I just selected the biggest/most important for the sponsors instead of ones we could actually do well in. Lesson learned from that, definitely going to be more tactical this time Smile
 
Bikex
matt17br wrote:
Just back home. Looks like Alitalia is the WT team with the least money, meh Frown

That's unfortunate to know we did so bad in our focus races, I think I remember myself picking Milano-Torino, Milano-Sanremo, Strade Bianche, Lombardia and Giro, and as far as I remember I fullfilled at least 3 of those objectives, but of course I was totally wrong...


There are only three focus races, yours were Strade Bianche, Roma Maxima and the Giro, of which you only did well enough at Roma Maxima.
 
PeterRyder
Can I get the same PM bwiggins did? Embarassed
 
brewers90
Okay, so that went well. The moral of this particular story is don't click post that late at night. I'd had a long day, my Nan is in a terrible state in hospital, I was tired, I had a bad headache and it was the last thing I did before going to bed. My bad.

Anyway, I overreacted but do still think established WT teams shouldn't be allowed to steal. I absolutely get what trekbmc is saying. CT teams and newly promoted teams should be able to. Teams that already have WT-level squads shouldn't.

I have respect for you all. Except the OP German dude. Pfft
Manager of Bunzl - Centrica
ICL's World Tour Champions and Talented Bottlers



pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2014/funny.png
 
mvhoogdalem
brewers90 wrote:

I have respect for you all. Except the OP German dude. Pfft


What did I do wrong...? Pfft

I'm expecting a few steals on my riders, so I have to steal a bit myself. Wink
 
brewers90
You're not German as far as I'm aware.
Manager of Bunzl - Centrica
ICL's World Tour Champions and Talented Bottlers



pcmdaily.com/images/awards/2014/funny.png
 
mvhoogdalem
brewers90 wrote:
You're not German as far as I'm aware.


Thought you meant team nationality. Pfft

Also, is it just me or is the excel-file not working correctly. Only 2 steals show up in the PM tab
Edited by mvhoogdalem on 28-09-2015 17:46
 
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