The last game i bought was pcm 2011. Seems like most game developers these days are only focused on improving graphics. Put the crap in a new coat and people will surely buy it again, well I WONT. The only things that are great every year in pcm are the db's made by the devote fanbase.
Even the big game companies fail in this respect. Take Total War Rome 2 for example, hyped into heaven, but utter crap on release. Unlike many others i have learned my lesson. I wait for the early birds to do the beta testing that starts nowadays after they release the game instead of before.
So my message to Cyanide and many other gaming companies is this: improve the gameplay, keep the things in the game that work and people like and fuck the improving on the graphics part since most rigs wont be able to handle them anywayz.
Enough threads etc. About this.
Yes, we agree, but this doesn't help them at all.
They are a tiny company, F.e EA is like 1000x bigger. So if even big companies fail, why can't Cyanide make mistakes? Though I agree with your point.
Ar least a bugfix is on the way.
If you don't like the game, don't get it, don't post about it, don't put people off it and don't have a forum membership if all your gonna do is waste space.
Cyanide do a great job every year creating a very challenging to design game and all u people do is moan.
And yeah, I always wait for reviews before buying but that's not because I think every game will be awful.
I think people fail to realise the complexity of this game.
In a football (soccer) game, there are 25 AI to sort out inside a flat rectangle.
In PCM, there are up to 200 AI's to do, plus uneven terrain, uncertain stage time, many, many different types of riders. Also, unlike other sport games where there is a team trying to win over the other. In PCM, 1 rider on a break will change the mood of the other 199. Different stages make for different goals, different strategies to each team depending on who has the lead (or not).
Yes, there are a lot of bugs and even so I think the AI is not the worst and that some are pretty simple to solve (from as far as I can see), but we only buy if we like it.
And then, there aren't those many cycling games around and they don't sell that many copies, compared to the likes of FIFA, PES, COD just because cycling is a less popular genre.
Like you said, you can wait until some people play the game before checking for it on the internet, so why complain? If it's crap, stay away. I myself at times lash against the game, but still I want to play it. Yes, I'm dumb and so is everyone else that plays the game. And I'm happy about it.
At least PCM has great longevity and can be played over and over and you can even change DB's, add stages and such. It's not like the Deadpool game (or many, many others) that I downloaded and finished in an afternoon. Then what? That yes, is a big rip-off. Buy a game that last 4 or 5 hours? You can watch a couple of movies.
And to be totally honest, I downloaded PCM first from an "alternative" source before deciding to buy it. Yes, the game is not perfect but they need the money to improve it so we have to quid pro quo. I came from PCM2010 and I can see some real improvement.
Edited by itisix on 13-09-2013 09:39
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
itisix wrote:
Yes, the game is not perfect but they need the money to improve it so we have to quid pro quo. I came from PCM2010 and I can see some real improvement.
Coming from PCM11 myself, for me the improvement wasn't worth the money they recieved over the last two years for developing it.
I mean, I'd say right now that PCM11 is almost as good as PCM13. PCM13 does some things a bit better, looks a little bit nicer, but has also become simply worse than PCM11 at various points.
If it weren't for the community support switching to the newer versions (with the DB's and all) I would still be on PCM11.
itisix wrote:
I think people fail to realise the complexity of this game.
In a football (soccer) game, there are 25 AI to sort out inside a flat rectangle.
In PCM, there are up to 200 AI's to do, plus uneven terrain, uncertain stage time, many, many different types of riders. Also, unlike other sport games where there is a team trying to win over the other. In PCM, 1 rider on a break will change the mood of the other 199. Different stages make for different goals, different strategies to each team depending on who has the lead (or not).
AI does not work like that, not in soccer games and definitively not in cycling games.
But in any case, complexity of a project is not an excuse for failure. If they cannot handle it, they need to reduce complexity (instead of adding new, not working features).
itisix wrote:
...Yes, the game is not perfect but they need the money to improve it so we have to quid pro quo. I came from PCM2010 and I can see some real improvement.
They don't need the money to improve the game, they need the money to pay their employees.
To improve the game, they need a better concept and/or better employees and/or a better quality tests.
itisix wrote:
Yes, the game is not perfect but they need the money to improve it so we have to quid pro quo. I came from PCM2010 and I can see some real improvement.
Coming from PCM11 myself, for me the improvement wasn't worth the money they recieved over the last two years for developing it.
I mean, I'd say right now that PCM11 is almost as good as PCM13. PCM13 does some things a bit better, looks a little bit nicer, but has also become simply worse than PCM11 at various points.
If it weren't for the community support switching to the newer versions (with the DB's and all) I would still be on PCM11.
Don't forget not only do they have to improve the game they also have to completely overhaul the stats, riders, potentials, stages, dates, teams etc. etc. must take a while. I agree, this is a silly discussion and one that has been mentioned too many times.
The Hobbit wrote:
Don't forget not only do they have to improve the game they also have to completely overhaul the stats
They are ridiculous, and there are lots of 55-riders.
The Hobbit wrote:, riders
Those 10 new guys per season?
The Hobbit wrote:, potentials
Most don't change, the rest is pretty off
The Hobbit wrote:, stages
The 5 stages that are used 20 times each per season in the few races that come with the OR?
The Hobbit wrote:, dates
2 minutes of work.
The Hobbit wrote:, teams
5 new teams, 10 new jerseys. Takes a few days for a single community jersey maker, and give one guy another day for transfers.
Edited by cio93 on 13-09-2013 17:03
Well I exaggerate a bit, but what point are you making?
The game is still good, we all clearly enjoy it or we wouldn't play it, but this is just things anyone can do. To fix the issues there is probably quite a lot of work, and if all you people who think it is unacceptably bad could make a better game I'd happily buy it but my guess is you couldn't.
There are lots of issues which should have no place, and canbe spotted easily but I wouldn't complain, it's like criticising someone else's idea/work when you have no idea/haven't done any work yourself.
Also what is the point of this.
At the moment this game is pure crap. Normally the game gets better with patches but right now it is unplayable. I want to play the WC and I want a normal season where all the teams participate in the races.
And did you just blame us for not programming a better game? I don't think there are many game programmers in this forum. But no matter which job we have, we don't fuck up our job regularly.
Sorry that I didn't read the whole thread, please let me know if I'm completely off the point, just cio's post called my attention:
cio93 wrote:
The Hobbit wrote:, riders
Those 10 new guys per season?
There's quite more than that
cio93 wrote:
The Hobbit wrote:, stages
The 5 stages that are used 20 times each per season in the few races that come with the OR?
The game with many 2013 stages from WT races, .HC races and so on.
cio93 wrote:
The Hobbit wrote:, teams
5 new teams, 10 new jerseys. Takes a few days for a single community jersey maker, and give one guy another day for transfers.
Come on, graphics might be the only part where Cya work is good without bugs, they have 2013 shirts with accessories and all for 85% of the teams, how's that 10 new jerseys only?
That said, if I get the point of the thread right - what does these all (stages, shirts) have to do with programming the game? Creating graphics is up to graphic makers, stages up to stage makers, riders and teams up to anyone with decent cycling knowledge, but certainly not jobs that have to be taken by the programmers of the game. If they spend time in that, Cya should really review their division of work. And since they most likely don't (spend time in that), it's fair to say that the last couple of PCMs haven't had great innovations (not only new features but also getting things to work right, e.g. sponsors and AI) - and this, yes, is related to programming the game.
Edited by lluuiiggii on 13-09-2013 18:42
Lachi wrote:
At the moment this game is pure crap. Normally the game gets better with patches but right now it is unplayable. I want to play the WC and I want a normal season where all the teams participate in the races.
And did you just blame us for not programming a better game? I don't think there are many game programmers in this forum. But no matter which job we have, we don't fuck up our job regularly.
I'm not saying I blame you for the game, that would be overly dumb. But I think people should get off Cyanide's back. There may not be many programmers in our community, so why is that?
It's hard
It's boring
No one has the time.
Therefore why are you moaning for them doing badly at something you can't do better. I wouldn't criticise someon'es mandarin because I don't like it if I have no knowledge of Mandarin.
Like M. Luigi said, what the community does helps make the game better, but you can't play it without the core programme. At least I think that's what he meant.
Also credit to Cio for his analysis of my poor argument position, I actually enjoyed reading it, very good.
Edited by The Hobbit on 13-09-2013 19:06
It's true, shld have put this message up on the Cyanide forum. Ofcrz i dont blame the community for this, u guys are putting a lot of effort in the things u are able to improve.
But I still think my reasoning has a good point. Let's say i wanna buy a new car, then i would want it to be better, more safe, less polluting than the previous car i bought 10 years ago. It's like Cyanide tries to sell me a new car every year with a different paint job, but this time around the brakes dont work and the airbags explode in ur face.
U tell me mr Hobbit i shldnt complain about it and be happy with the new paint job and the added back spoiler wich happens to fly away when u go over 10 km/h. And no i dont know shit about making cars, but I expect a good one when i put my money on the table.
I have been buying pcm year after year till 2011, I want Cyanide to work mostly on improving the core gameplay, not just adding new stuff that doesnt work like it was supposed to anyway.
The reason i put up posts like this on game forums is to make people think twice before they buy a game and resist their urge to buy on release day. That's the only message that will reach the ears of the game developers, when they see drops in initial sales they just might one day start to realize what their devote fanbase wants with the next installment of their game.
Edited by IgorThaHunter on 13-09-2013 23:57
Ok let's think of it another way.
The game s rubbish
No one buys the next one.
They make less money
They either pack up and go home or don't have enough money to make any difference to the next one.
Also, back to the car analogy, you only buy a new car when your old one's broken right?
So buying one every year, I certainly wouldn't expect it to be radically different, some companies don't even bring out a car every year.
Obviously if you buy 2 cars ten years apart you'd expect the nex one to be better, but still sometimes they aren't, for example everyone would rather have a Ferrari Testa Rossa than a Peugot. Mo offence to Peugeot.
Obviously these are further apart and the old one won't work, but sometimes people don't like things, opinions vary, I don't like figs, that doesn't mean I should encourage everyone else never to eat another fig in their life!
But when you buy a car, you expect it to work properly from the go
I think Cyanide should review their approach and go for a platform instead of a game. They could cash up on subscriptions and invest in online aspects. Then, all they would need to do is update DB's and evolution would be linear. For a slightly off the main path game, it could probably be the best option.
Still, I like the game as it is, bugged and all. That is why I bought it.
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
PCM works just not so good, you can buy a car and expect it to work, but not to go 180mph.
Man that was a rubbish analogy.
Oh and please please don't make it a platform thingy.
But think about, it, there is nowhere near as much money going in to cyanide as there is EA, Creative Assembly, SEGA, etc. so you'd also expect buying an Audi to be more reliable than a Morgan.
Tough it probably won't be, but that's for Audi to sort out, why are we now talking about cars more than PCM, is there a thread for that in here somewhere?
Lol every second post is me!
Edited by The Hobbit on 14-09-2013 13:48
