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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-07-2012 06:24
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Jacdk wrote:
The problem with this thread is that some people completely forget about the basic principals of justice-system.
NO ONE and i can say this again NO ONE is presumed guilty, they are ALWAYS presumed innocent until proven guilty, its not that other way around. And this also goes for cycling
So despite some peoples clever remarks in the thread, Lance Armstrong and Team SKY are clean as new fallen snow.
Until they are either found positive.
Though the problem for Armstrong is apparently USADA is on a vendetta against him and do not care about evidence and want to convict him alone on testimony from doped riders who are only out to save their own skin.
They're innocents until proven guilty in the eyes of Justice.
That doesn't make it for the positive tests, and the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, etc.
Being clean has to do with taking dope or not, not with getting caught with it or not.
Edited by Aquarius on 18-07-2012 06:25
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-07-2012 06:33
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Movistar wrote:
Ya because Armstrong had so many team members on Ventoux when he chased down Pantani?
So you are telling me seeing guys explode on the mountains from 10k out is not as exciting as viewer than seeing everyone wait until 1k or 2k to even try something. Guys like Pantani blew up the race so they could overcome their TT problems which made for very exciting riding this just does not happen today.
I'm telling you cowards tactics are more linked to riders or teams current mentality and are not related to doping.
The route is fine for attacks from father, but nowadays riders would rather die to protect a 13th position G.C. and chase down an attacking guy who's 15th in G.C. than trying to attack, but maybe fail.
Blame either their lack of balls, either the UCI/WT points system that makes that sort of approach logical.
In the end the problem is still to answer the question : how do I beat the strongest guy when he also has the strongest team ? |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-07-2012 07:08
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Not sure it belongs (only) here, and it's too long for a translation (and lacking a little interest), but here are F. Portoleau's Watts calculations :
https://www.rue89....ier-233861
On long efforts, Froome is around 400-410 W. On shorter ones (15-20 minutes) he's much above (the 410 W threshold doesn't apply here).
Pinot is about 30 W below Froome in every circumstance (shorter/longer climbs), whereas Voeckler won his stage by averaging a little more than 380 W in the last mountain ascent. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 06:27
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| Jupi |
Posted on 18-07-2012 15:50
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Amateur
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Peyresourde:
24:27
6 w/kg
422 watts |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 18-07-2012 16:04
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This is getting too obvious.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 18-07-2012 16:19
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It will be interesting to see, if new doping tests are going to influence Sky's performance in the future, or that it really is the 'advanced training programs', that caused the sudden improvement for their riders.
Is Sky going to become US Postal V2?
Edited by Wilier on 18-07-2012 16:20
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 18-07-2012 16:23
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Tbh I still think the competition this year makes them look much better then they are.
Contador and Schleck will really show how good Froome is. Not from this Tour.
Edited by Alakagom on 18-07-2012 16:23
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| Wilier |
Posted on 18-07-2012 16:59
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I agree with you on the competition. I wonder where Contador would stand in this Tour. Looking at how Froome's riding he could be even better than Alberto.
But given the history of this sport, you can't help being sceptical with their performance.
Back in 2007 I was thrilled by Rabobank's perfomance. Turned out to be one of the biggest dissapointments in my life...
Edited by Wilier on 18-07-2012 17:00
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 18-07-2012 17:17
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Alakagom wrote:
Tbh I still think the competition this year makes them look much better then they are.
Contador and Schleck will really show how good Froome is. Not from this Tour.
Well, in the TT they didn't face Tony Martin but still performed ridiculously good to beat Cancellara by a whole minute for Wiggins and 22 secs for Froome (and I don't really find the argument that Cancellara wasn't in shape much valid, he owned the prologue, and had rested the day earlier). In the mountains, Wiggins would be pwned by Contador, because it's Contador, but Froome... he's been doing a lot of work at the front and is clearly the strongest, it's like he could take out Wiggins advantage anytime on the mountains.
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 18-07-2012 18:28
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Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 18-07-2012 18:35
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Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling.
Dude enough.
Jesus. You'd make Mr. Rogers depressed.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:05
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issoisso wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling.
Dude enough.
Jesus. You'd make Mr. Rogers depressed.
I never seem to agree with you isso but +1 for this post  |
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:16
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Stagiare
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CLURPR wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling.
Dude enough.
Jesus. You'd make Mr. Rogers depressed.
I never seem to agree with you isso but +1 for this post
Again. No1 cares about +1 posts.
Bandwagon. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:19
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Likkivi wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling.
Dude enough.
Jesus. You'd make Mr. Rogers depressed.
I never seem to agree with you isso but +1 for this post
Again. No1 cares about +1 posts.
Bandwagon.
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:20
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Stagiare
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Besides what I am saying is true.
Wiggins didn't make a single effort during this Tour. Together with the horrible route it gave away the GC before it the mountains even begun.
Not 1 time have a GC favourite succesfully made a break. How pathetic is that. And I who thought the Schleck/Contador duel was boring. Bring that back anytime, please. |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:20
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Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling.
+1, just because you hate +1's.
But hey, I fully agree with you, this Tour is rediculous.
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:24
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Stagiare
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ruben wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins isn't winning the Tour.
He is slowly sucking all live and joy out of it to leave the whole world with an empty feeling.
Dude enough.
Jesus. You'd make Mr. Rogers depressed.
I never seem to agree with you isso but +1 for this post
Again. No1 cares about +1 posts.
Bandwagon.
I don't get it?
I am the one posting a statement. They are the ones crying.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:48
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Likkivi wrote:
Wiggins didn't make a single effort during this Tour.
Cycling is such an easy sport nowadays.  |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 18-07-2012 19:53
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Tbh I still think the competition this year makes them look much better then they are.
Contador and Schleck will really show how good Froome is. Not from this Tour.
Well, in the TT they didn't face Tony Martin but still performed ridiculously good to beat Cancellara by a whole minute for Wiggins and 22 secs for Froome (and I don't really find the argument that Cancellara wasn't in shape much valid, he owned the prologue, and had rested the day earlier). In the mountains, Wiggins would be pwned by Contador, because it's Contador, but Froome... he's been doing a lot of work at the front and is clearly the strongest, it's like he could take out Wiggins advantage anytime on the mountains.
Froome and Wiggo are averaging numbers around 6 W/kg on long climbs, right ? That's 420 W for a 70+8 kg rider. They do more on shorter climbs.
If we look at figures from the past, you can see an evolution. Contador was above those figures, until he faded in last year's Tour. Same with Andy Schleck. Last year, and that made the likes of Voeckler able to contest for G.C., they were rather around 400-410 W average. Which means that Froome and Wiggins would probably climb as well, if not better, than A. Schleck and Contador 2011.
If you look at those two at their peak, and compare them to Sky riders this year, Sky wouldn't match them, but then again we're not sure they're at their absolute limit right now. Especially Froome.
Then there's the ITT aspect, where Wiggins would possibly gain 30 seconds or one minute on Contador, and 4 or 5 minutes on Schleck. |
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| Londoner |
Posted on 18-07-2012 20:19
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The Sky Team is very suspicious to me especially how the whole team is constantly working really hard throughout the past week and no other team seems to be able match their performance. On the other hand doping is a little like sending your riders on training camps - it helps increase stats but you still require extreme knowledge of the sport, well-thought of tactics, preparation and training.
Froome is dodgy - 2 year illness and then being able to dominate races. Again, on the other hand the competition is not as fierce last year and it seems top riders are not on top of their form.
Anyways, The Sky Team - and Europcar, although the extremely aggressive style adds something to the tour, which is good -however both seem dodgy
Then, you could also say this about everyone who wins a stage.... lets not ruin our experience of the TDF and wait till someone is proven guilty even if we dislike certain riders (braaaadley). haha
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