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The Frustration Thread 2012
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 11-08-2012 19:58
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Tour de France Champion
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Once again, if you think that equipment affects game, it is a placebo. It doesn't.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| bernard75 |
Posted on 11-08-2012 20:20
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Under 23
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martyr1777 wrote:
I complain about Football Manager too, but the reality is Cyanide could learn MASSIVE amounts about being successful with a small niche game from Sports Interactive.[/spoiler]
I absolutely agree, the game developers actually care about gamers and really have a good product. And its not like it requires a lot of work.
They put a lot of work into it a few years ago, but now its just minor updates and keeping the database up to date.
I actually never realized how good the game is until i came across PCM.
www.worldcupfancamp.com
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 11:11
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 11-08-2012 21:57
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Grand Tour Champion
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@martyr1777: you really think the AI hasn't improved from PCM10? 
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| totty86steaua |
Posted on 12-08-2012 07:59
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Junior Rider
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Where are the individual statistics ? I mean , Victories - 3 , Podium places - 5 , 4- 10th - 15 . How do i know the amount of wins a rider had in previous seasons ? |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 12-08-2012 09:11
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Tour de France Champion
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You can look at his career in the menu, then look at the previous year and you'll see his best achievements. His wins, GC wins, jerseys, top3 and top10 places in what races. |
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| totty86steaua |
Posted on 12-08-2012 12:19
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Ian Butler wrote:
You can look at his career in the menu, then look at the previous year and you'll see his best achievements. His wins, GC wins, jerseys, top3 and top10 places in what races.
I have seen that but i must count them by myself . |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 12-08-2012 13:20
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Grand Tour Champion
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You can see it but only for that season I think, by going in Rankings -> Victories or, in the 'squad' page, go to visualization of all teams (a small arrow next to the team name), click on a team and go to 'Season'.
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| martyr1777 |
Posted on 12-08-2012 22:54
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lluuiiggii wrote:
@martyr1777: you really think the AI hasn't improved from PCM10?
Not in any fashion that constitutes two new editions of the game, no.
Yeah another rant alert... I'm long winded when I complain about things that I would like if they weren't so annoying.
Spoiler I always know when the break will be caught because the AI in a break away never puts any effort in to staying away form the pack once they get clear. The breakaway AI is the worst as they always break and never actually try to make it. They might make attacks just before getting caught but during the time that the pack closes the 5-8 minute lead they ride along at effort levels around 50. The only time a break will ever get away is very hilly or mountain stages, unless one of the rare times the pack just doesn't chase, and even then they don't chase for what reason? Because a RNG said so?
Every stage race I get a rider in the break, collect the sprints and climbs , sit back to wait for the pack to catch up then by the time they have it's always time to setup the final sprint and get a top 5 finish.
The AI is terrible, but lets just put that aside even... How is it edition after edition they can't make very simple improvements to the management portion of the game? It wouldn't take that much work to get sponsoring young riders and equipment to actual play the role they make you think it does but they don't even make the attempt.
Again looking at Football Manager, they at least create some new functionality each year with their new release. Training, scouting, match day tactics etc. Why is it Cyanide makes no significant changes to PCM? I've seen minor AI changes, which haven't made an -effective- difference and graphical improvements. Otherwise 2012 plays exactly like 2010 (except can seem to judge other riders daily condition like in 2010, so something removed not added).
As for the graphical improvement, games like this graphics aren't going to make for more sales if the game play is bad. Compare Football Manager and FIFA manager... FIFA has nice 3d graphical matches, but weaker game play and Football Manager out sales them with barely any graphics at all.
And no I'm not just a hater, too reasons I rant about this. A: ticks me off to pay for a game that's questionable and not getting better. B: I love the concept, I like watching pro cycling and the game would be very fun to.. -IF- it weren't so insanely frustrating.
Edited by martyr1777 on 12-08-2012 22:55
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-08-2012 23:38
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Tour de France Champion
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martyr1777 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
@martyr1777: you really think the AI hasn't improved from PCM10?
Not in any fashion that constitutes two new editions of the game, no.
Yeah another rant alert... I'm long winded when I complain about things that I would like if they weren't so annoying.
Spoiler I always know when the break will be caught because the AI in a break away never puts any effort in to staying away form the pack once they get clear. The breakaway AI is the worst as they always break and never actually try to make it. They might make attacks just before getting caught but during the time that the pack closes the 5-8 minute lead they ride along at effort levels around 50. The only time a break will ever get away is very hilly or mountain stages, unless one of the rare times the pack just doesn't chase, and even then they don't chase for what reason? Because a RNG said so?
Every stage race I get a rider in the break, collect the sprints and climbs , sit back to wait for the pack to catch up then by the time they have it's always time to setup the final sprint and get a top 5 finish.
The AI is terrible, but lets just put that aside even... How is it edition after edition they can't make very simple improvements to the management portion of the game? It wouldn't take that much work to get sponsoring young riders and equipment to actual play the role they make you think it does but they don't even make the attempt.
Again looking at Football Manager, they at least create some new functionality each year with their new release. Training, scouting, match day tactics etc. Why is it Cyanide makes no significant changes to PCM? I've seen minor AI changes, which haven't made an -effective- difference and graphical improvements. Otherwise 2012 plays exactly like 2010 (except can seem to judge other riders daily condition like in 2010, so something removed not added).
As for the graphical improvement, games like this graphics aren't going to make for more sales if the game play is bad. Compare Football Manager and FIFA manager... FIFA has nice 3d graphical matches, but weaker game play and Football Manager out sales them with barely any graphics at all.
And no I'm not just a hater, too reasons I rant about this. A: ticks me off to pay for a game that's questionable and not getting better. B: I love the concept, I like watching pro cycling and the game would be very fun to.. -IF- it weren't so insanely frustrating.
struggling to see why you've brought the game at all
the AI has massivly improved since pcm10!!! its very realistic in my opinion (unless its currently mountains). Most of this change has happened for 2 main reasons 1) to get attacks to work properly uphill and 2) the adition of solid rider models
In real life breaks are usually caught between 10km and the finish, around 90% of the time. If you do 100 stages, 10% of the breaks will make it (ive found). I know the break always rides at the same pace and thats a problem, but one thats easy to overcome, just have your rider increase the pace...
Its terrible that Cyanide have basically ignored the manager part for a few years, but the racing is now very good and graphically very nice.
Its selling point is that it is the only cycling game, not that it looks good... It is hoped that now Cyanide are now going to focus on managerial things, and this year they've started fixing old problems in patches.
again that was rather serious so ... BingoBoingoTitties 
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| bernard75 |
Posted on 12-08-2012 23:45
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Under 23
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Its terrible that Cyanide have basically ignored the manager part for a few years, but the racing is now very good and graphically very nice.
Its selling point is that it is the only cycling game, not that it looks good... It is hoped that now Cyanide are now going to focus on managerial things, and this year they've started fixing old problems in patches.
I highly doubt that, they have their hands full with Game of Thrones and unfortunately all their remaining interns are busy with Armada. 
www.worldcupfancamp.com
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 12-08-2012 23:53
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bernard75 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Its terrible that Cyanide have basically ignored the manager part for a few years, but the racing is now very good and graphically very nice.
Its selling point is that it is the only cycling game, not that it looks good... It is hoped that now Cyanide are now going to focus on managerial things, and this year they've started fixing old problems in patches.
I highly doubt that, they have their hands full with Game of Thrones and unfortunately all their remaining interns are busy with Armada.
The one thing that HAS to be changed in 3D race mode are time gaps. Why is it so hard to make the final kms 1:1? This way the time gaps would be realistic with 1-2 second gaps like you often see IRL. |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 13-08-2012 00:39
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Grand Tour Champion
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Concerning breakaways, I think PCM11-12 are quite solid on that. It's not rare to see breaks succeeding on hilly/mountain stages, as you said - realistic - and it isn't often to see the break succeeding on the flat - realistic, think how many flat stages ended in a sprint vs breakaway in this years TdF.
Sometimes the peloton simply won't chase, yes, but that's how it is irl. Of course, it has its reasons irl (e.g. peloton wanting a rest day), while it's more random in the game, but it does happen in both.
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 13-08-2012 08:07
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For the first time in a long while I'm not frustrated! PCM is reinstalled, everything seems fine, and I got this beast who will give me wins left, right and center this year
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| martyr1777 |
Posted on 13-08-2012 09:43
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Concerning breakaways, I think PCM11-12 are quite solid on that. It's not rare to see breaks succeeding on hilly/mountain stages, as you said - realistic - and it isn't often to see the break succeeding on the flat - realistic, think how many flat stages ended in a sprint vs breakaway in this years TdF.
Sometimes the peloton simply won't chase, yes, but that's how it is irl. Of course, it has its reasons irl (e.g. peloton wanting a rest day), while it's more random in the game, but it does happen in both.
Ok let me be more clear why I don't like how the AI works. Because you are right, the end results are accurate to reality... the end results.
Its how the AI comes to those results that is annoying. Probably the worst part being when the breakaway suddenly just sit up when they have a 4-5 minute lead and is -not- being chased. It's like, ok, why'd they attack in the first place.
@TheManxMissile: The collision detection (solid rider model) is one of the faults though. They implemented it without the AI having the capability of making their way through the pack. You see AI making attacks while they are locked up in the middle and literally don't go anywhere. If the peloton is moving slow on a narrow road then it is in fact impossible for riders to move to the front because there is a solid front line that is impenetrable. As I've said, I've started races and watched a break get 3 minutes out by the time I had any of my possible break riders or chasers to the front. Then there are the times you see the collision detection completely ignored as we see riders go right through each other regularly, or even points when a rider gets stuck behind -1- other rider and doesn't go left or right around them because the AI fails.
That's poor implementation and smacks of the same lack of effort that has meaningless managerial functionality.
And i still feel that whatever improvements they've made do not constitute two new full releases, they are nothing more then patches imo. I say that just because the game play feels exactly the same as 2010.
BTW, I bought the game because I had a gift card I wasn't going to use on anything else and I had hoped there was more improvement over 2010. But Cyanide won't get more money from be until I see real improvement, So as niche as cycling may be they are still hurting themselves. |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 13-08-2012 17:42
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Grand Tour Champion
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I agree that PCM11-12 there are few updates - and probably some step backwards that ruin the few updates (like not having normal online mode again - still can't play stage races - and the new GUI, at least for me). But the PCM10-11 step was a big one imo. Besides the fixed AI, we had:
- solid rider models;
- rotating sponsors;
- rider's popularity;
- rider's region, instead of countries.
And some more stuff.
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| totty86steaua |
Posted on 13-08-2012 19:37
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Junior Rider
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What is really annoying to me is the sprint on flat stages in GT , how on earth Igor Anton and Dan Martin is beating Cavendish and Goss on a flat stage ? Mark will beat them without a wheel . |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 13-08-2012 19:53
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Grand Tour Champion
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Here comes PCM10 again  Which DB?
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| martyr1777 |
Posted on 13-08-2012 19:55
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Amateur
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lluuiiggii wrote:
I agree that PCM11-12 there are few updates - and probably some step backwards that ruin the few updates (like not having normal online mode again - still can't play stage races - and the new GUI, at least for me). But the PCM10-11 step was a big one imo. Besides the fixed AI, we had:
- solid rider models;
- rotating sponsors;
- rider's popularity;
- rider's region, instead of countries.
And some more stuff.
Ok then lets really look at what those bring tot he table.
Solid Riders... well to me its more annoying then the unrealistic ghost riders. Because the path finding is terrible and it can completely prevent you from performing anything in certain circumstances. So if it were implemented well it would be a great addition, but I'd rather have ghosts until they get that sorted out personally.
Rotating sponsors, that is an improvement except that nothing else about sponsors work properly. They don't increase funding for promotion even though they say they will. The goals have been messed the whole time, less so now, but still not working properly. But the goals seem to be pretty meaningless anyway, as long as you win the races you do enter. So minor improvement full of bugs.
Rider popularity? Well aside from the minor impact with the sponsor, which again is probably fairly meaningless. The only impact of this is pure fluff. Fluff is fine when you have functional depth, the game does not have functional depth however.
Regions.... yeah, not sure what to make of that, seems just like more fluff to me as their were scouting regions in some countries before. Think the only actual tie would be to regional sponsors and the boost of a popular rider. Again, minimal improvement.
So for me, there is simply no meat on the bone here.
Edited by martyr1777 on 13-08-2012 20:26
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 13-08-2012 20:36
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Grand Tour Champion
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Honestly I find solid riders a very nice addition. Yes, it can be very annoying sometimes (especially on narrow roads, which is why I'm totally against using them in stages ) and could definitely do with some more work on it, but most of the times - especially on the sprints - I find it really adds something to the game and to strategies.
Rotating sponsors makes a lot more sense after the patch where you can renew with your sponsor. Now, if you want a bigger budget with it, you'll need to please him in the last year of the contract at least. Plus the basic sense of it - the fact that teams change sponsors/shirts - works, so that's good. It's nice to see the peloton getting new jerseys and stuff as time goes by in a career. But I agree that having negotiations of budget inside the contract would be good as well.
Rider popularity also defines the value of the rider, at least when creating a custom team - for that I believe it also has influence on the salary of the rider, so it is a good thing imo.
Plus, I didn't say that all new features worked 100% well I just said it's unfair to say that there were few changes from PCM10-11, which wouldn't constitute a new full release. As for PCM12, the problem was Armada, Cyanide's main feature of the game, unfortunately for those who prefer offline playing.
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| martyr1777 |
Posted on 13-08-2012 20:50
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Fair enough, differences of opinions always happen. I can't tell you how many times I've been pulling my hair out over the solid riders. At the end as well, when an opponent breaks it and goes right through me. Or like this last time where a rider broke up my sprint train (just moved right in between my 3rd and 4th man like they weren't even there, after I was fully set) and hence destroy my hard work in a non-realistic way mind you.
I will say that seeing sponsors, jerseys and such changing is a good thing... (although just realized if the equipment doesn't change with jerseys there might be a few clashes going on). Feels more alive when you see a new look.
But that's it for me. The management portion of the game is so limited that its more just a cycling simulator. So I sometimes feel silly trying to take a low budget continental team to the top when there is nothing to the management aspect. Might as well just start as one of the top teams.
But I will say the same thing I've said in other forums... if I'm posting it means i am playing the game. Just think the game has much more potential and honestly Cyanide are wasting it, imo. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
