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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| Forza-Diavolo |
Posted on 20-01-2015 17:00
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Stagiare
Posts: 197
Joined: 22-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Forza-Diavolo wrote:
Will there be a 2015 database at a time?
Sure there will be one 
Does anyone know when |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 20-01-2015 17:20
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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It will come a bit later than the past years because part of the crew is busy.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 20-01-2015 22:13
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Is the young sprinter Fernando Gaviria in the DB??? Which stats are going to give him in Update 2.1??? |
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| jarneke1404 |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:18
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Under 23
Posts: 67
Joined: 21-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Fernando Gaviria really deserves some great stats. does anyone have a suggestion of realistic stats?? |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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I wouldn't be so hasty. By that same logic you could rate Diaz above Quintana, but we know better. Let's see what he does for the rest of the season before giving him great stats |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 04:29
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Bot Agent
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:27
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Indeed, he wouldn't deserve more than 72SP yet if you ask me. Sure he'll get higher if he gets more results throughout the season, but this could as well be an one-off(well two-off maybe  ), and also relates to form heavily, Cav is not in-form yet and this lad is. Although the guy is talented ofc
Edited by Jesleyh on 21-01-2015 21:28
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:31
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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What would happen if you had a 20 year old with really good stats anyway? Would he get to good after a couple of seasons?
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Not necessarily, depends of many factors, some random, some we can influence(evolution slider and potential we give him)
He wouldn't be unique at all though, guys like Sagan, Quintana and Ewan for instance had(or have in Ewan's case) high stats at young age as well, higher than this guy will be I guess.
Edited by Jesleyh on 21-01-2015 21:37
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| jarneke1404 |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:38
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Under 23
Posts: 67
Joined: 21-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
Indeed, he wouldn't deserve more than 72SP yet if you ask me. Sure he'll get higher if he gets more results throughout the season, but this could as well be an one-off(well two-off maybe ), and also relates to form heavily, Cav is not in-form yet and this lad is. Although the guy is talented ofc
72SP is a bit too low imo, yes, maybe Cav is not in-form, but he also beats modolo, hutarovich, marini, grosu,... even when they're all out of form, you can't beat them with 72SP |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Oh sure you can.
The guy probably peaked for San Luis, which is a very important race for South-Americans, but not so much for Europeans.
Look at Diniz for instance. Does well in San Luis every year(except 2014, but 2012, 2013 and now this year again), beating very strong riders, but does fuck all in most other races
Also how is Marini a top rider?
Edited by Jesleyh on 21-01-2015 21:42
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| jarneke1404 |
Posted on 21-01-2015 21:44
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Under 23
Posts: 67
Joined: 21-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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yeah it's true, but still, this guy definitely will have a great future |
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 21-01-2015 22:01
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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We can agree on that.
@jesleyh
I love the new bit at the bottom of your signature. It's so funny we could nominate you for funniest member again.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 21-01-2015 22:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18168
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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You mean the bit he stole?
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 21-01-2015 22:05
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
You mean the bit he stole?
Nothing is original...
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 22-01-2015 00:19
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I think that 72/73 maybe fine |
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| clamel |
Posted on 22-01-2015 11:15
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1361
Joined: 13-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Just don't forget this bloke from Colombia is very good on the track too, but still a long shot from the aussie rocket Caleb Ewan IMHO.
Both same age so compare those two, and how they will develop.
 ____________________________________________
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| matt17br |
Posted on 22-01-2015 11:20
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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As Jesley already successfully pointed out, the peaks for the domestic south american riders are totally different from the ones of all the other riders. Yes, this could just be a 2-off, even though I don't think so as I expect a (more than) bright future for him, so I wouldn't be too enthusiastic with his stats. I'm sure a 72 or 73 sprint is totally deserved right now.
Besides the reasons listed above, I'd dare to state that he's an excellent punchy sprinter and this helped him a lot, especially in the last stage, so even a 68 on the hills may be arguably deserved.
Talking about Diaz, yes, the reason why he's so good at San Luis is probably (in a bigger measure) the same as Gaviria's. How would you explain these results otherwise?
As you can notice, there are 2 non-continental (or pct) teams' riders (2 strong ones indeed, Quintana and Moreno), plus only a non south american one (Still Moreno), 6 non-professional riders in total (Sepulveda and Torres are pro's as well, don't forget it).
Nonetheless, as you jump out from the top 10 and go see the full results, you'll only find 2 southamerican domestic riders, and this means that the strong non-pro climbers/punchers are almost over, therefore they can't all be wt level, otherwise they'd be around the top-10 all the year long
This confirms my point that the peaks are much, much different between these 2 kinds of riders, so some little nice stat upgrades for few of the ones involved would be justified and we will take account of them obviously
Edited by matt17br on 22-01-2015 11:29
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-01-2015 13:33
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I didnt know the guy before he beat Cav 2 times in a row, but I know one thing for sure, if you are doing that you deserve more than 72 for sure. I am aware of the south american/european argument and so forth, but beating the heck out of Cav who has been adament about wanting to win every sprint.. man, you dont ever beat him 2 times in a row in PCM with 72.
Edit: I dont know how much of this is true (if anything), but my hypothesis about a say mediocre sprinter beating a worldclass sprinter compared to a mediocre climber beating a worldclass climber is that it depends more on the actual shape when climbing compared to getting through a flat stage and sprinting. I guess my point is you are much more exposed when outta shape in the mountains, in this instance Quintana losing to Diaz and others, than a sprinter who isnt nowhere peaking. And thats why I feel you have to be extremely cautious with the mountain stat in this instance for the south american climbers who probably have this as their season goals (at least one of them), but on the other hand, you can reward Gaviria for beating Cav as the shape doesnt mean as much when sprinting one a flat stage. Thats just my thoughts tho.
Edited by Riis123 on 22-01-2015 13:43
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-01-2015 14:56
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Riis123 wrote:
I didnt know the guy before he beat Cav 2 times in a row, but I know one thing for sure, if you are doing that you deserve more than 72 for sure. I am aware of the south american/european argument and so forth, but beating the heck out of Cav who has been adament about wanting to win every sprint.. man, you dont ever beat him 2 times in a row in PCM with 72.
Okay but that logic bites you back in the ass. Allow me to explain.
Say we don't hear from the sprinter again (that's definitely possible), then a +72 sprinter will perform very well throughout the season on PCM. See how that logic doesn't work?
Imagine you could peak 100% for a race in January on PCM. Then a 72 sprinter could take on Cavendish. But you can't. Therefor it can't be solved. And it's a bit more realistic to make him lower so he's more invisible throughout the season, which he probably will be then to bring him up a level and have him do well all through the season.
Therefore, we wait and see what he does for the rest of the season. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-01-2015 15:23
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I love how you ignore my second part which explains my logic behind why I think you should reward him with atleast 73. Its just not a coincidence win you not only beat Cav, but the whole field 2 times in a row. I could understand it could be a fluke if he just did it one time, but 2 times? That doesnt happen with 72.
I get your point, but it doesnt make me wanna shy away from the fact that it seems a tad low after such performances |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
