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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 13-07-2012 14:39
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Robert Millar's thoughts
https://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robe...mbing-legs
Nobody is normal
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 14:39
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drugsdontwork wrote:
**Way Off Topic***
I think a second positive test is 100 games with a lifetime ban on a third.
I agree though that the biggest disincentive (for the best players) is the HoF vote. Wasn't the drugs policy a reason that baseball was dropped from the olympics? (or was it a test event?)
***Back on topic***
Anyhow this doesn't necessarily make what Wiggins says right but I do understand it. I still have that warm feeling about it all (hope I've not p*ssed my pants!).
I thinnk it wasn't global enough.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Jupi |
Posted on 13-07-2012 14:50
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Aquarius wrote:
You should multiply it by 70, not 78. Unless they're Cancellara's, bikes don't produce power. 
I knew i had to make a mistake, my numbers seemed to be too high based on the w/kgs I get. If using 70 as multiplier Froome is around 400 watts for the whole climb.
I downloaded the stage today to do some more thorough analysis. My main interest was the performance after the first attack by Nibali. There was a 1.7k flat part 3k after Nibali attacked, so I split the climb in two so it doesn't mess with the result. The first attack happened with 11.6 to go and Nibali was caught after about 1.2k. They slowed a bit after catching Nibali, who attacked again after 400 meters. Froome started to struggle at this point, so the group didn't react right away. Nibali gained about 20-22 seconds before the 1.7k flat started.
From the point Nibali first attacked to the start of the flat the group rode 3km in 7:44 at 5.55 w/kg, Nibali was a bit faster, achieving 5.87 w/kg.
At the start of the flat part Froome came to the fore again but went to the back soon after for the rest of this part.
After the flat they had to ride another 6.8k. That's where Froome took the lead again and started chasing the Nibali group. Evans got droped after 700 meters, Schleck after another 800 and finaly the Nibali group got caught after another 440. Froome then launched his attack immediately, only Pinot was really able to follow him, VdB and Nibali gained no ground until he slowed down to wait for Wiggins.
Froome rode these last 6.8kms in 16:12 at 5.9 w/kg, Wiggins got close to this, the rest are around 5.7 w/kg (they had a lead when they started this part, thus they rode slower).
During the first 6.5k from the bottom of the climb to the first Nibali attack, the bunch rode at 5.6 w/kg for 18:38.
Conclusions:
-I have no life
-The flat part half way up somewhat reduces the wattage for the whole of the climb, Frrome should be closer to 5.7 average w/kg for the uphill parts while having to wait for wiggins. These are Contador numbers...while digesting steak. Who knows what would happen if they let him loose.
-Going from 5.55 w/kg over 7:44 to 5.9 for 16:12 after resting for 1.7k on the flat suggests that his recuperation is astonishing, could be normal for a pro though, I hope someone here knows more about this.
Again numbers could be off for various reasons, so a grain of salt needs to be applied. |
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 15:22
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Wiggins saying "I can never dope because it would cost me everything"? I remember Kohl saying the very same. 
About genetic doping:
It´s enough to use sustances that changes the gene expression, not the actual DNA sequence.
you can also take proteins that enhance/block the gene expression by binding on the DNA. One exaple is GW 501516 which increases the muscle gen expression.
Back to the rumours about Wiggins, GW 501516 works even better combined with AICAR.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 01:20
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| Gaffeff |
Posted on 13-07-2012 15:34
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found a bit more info on the "tropical illness" I mentioned earlier:
This is where Froome says what it was:
https://uk.reuters...EN20110830
And this is where wiki explains what it is:
https://en.wikiped...tosomiasis
First of all it sounds nasty.
So on the medical exceptions would it be possible to get something to increase your supply of red blood cells, and that this could have a permenent effect even after the illness disapeared?
Not suggesting this is the case, or even if it's medically possible, just interested in the possibility? |
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 13-07-2012 15:39
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felix_29 wrote:
Wiggins saying "I can never dope because it would cost me everything"? I remember Kohl saying the very same.
That is the bare truth though is that he would. He would give the British people to finally cheer about something this summer, after Euro 2012 and Murray losing. So many people are getting behind him to win this years Tour and then to find out he was doping, it would be a crushing blow to everyone and most likely Wiggins and his family would probably have to leave the country, simply because of the spotlight the British media would put on him and his family and by some hooligans making death threats to his family or something. |
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| johannes-w |
Posted on 13-07-2012 15:43
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CLURPR wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
Wiggins saying "I can never dope because it would cost me everything"? I remember Kohl saying the very same.
That is the bare truth though is that he would. He would give the British people to finally cheer about something this summer, after Euro 2012 and Murray losing. So many people are getting behind him to win this years Tour and then to find out he was doping, it would be a crushing blow to everyone and most likely Wiggins and his family would probably have to leave the country, simply because of the spotlight the British media would put on him and his family and by some hooligans making death threats to his family or something.
probably the same for kohl and austria as well - except the hooligan part |
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 15:49
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CLURPR wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
Wiggins saying "I can never dope because it would cost me everything"? I remember Kohl saying the very same.
That is the bare truth though is that he would. He would give the British people to finally cheer about something this summer, after Euro 2012 and Murray losing. So many people are getting behind him to win this years Tour and then to find out he was doping, it would be a crushing blow to everyone and most likely Wiggins and his family would probably have to leave the country, simply because of the spotlight the British media would put on him and his family and by some hooligans making death threats to his family or something.
I never questioned the "it would cost me anything" part, but the "i would never dope" one. Kohl told he things like "i´m clean, and i hate dopers" the whole time while he was full with EPO.
@Gaffeff: I don´t think so, sustances like EPO are released from your body after a certain time.
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 13-07-2012 16:43
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Jupi wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
You should multiply it by 70, not 78. Unless they're Cancellara's, bikes don't produce power.
I knew i had to make a mistake, my numbers seemed to be too high based on the w/kgs I get. If using 70 as multiplier Froome is around 400 watts for the whole climb.
I downloaded the stage today to do some more thorough analysis. My main interest was the performance after the first attack by Nibali. There was a 1.7k flat part 3k after Nibali attacked, so I split the climb in two so it doesn't mess with the result. The first attack happened with 11.6 to go and Nibali was caught after about 1.2k. They slowed a bit after catching Nibali, who attacked again after 400 meters. Froome started to struggle at this point, so the group didn't react right away. Nibali gained about 20-22 seconds before the 1.7k flat started.
From the point Nibali first attacked to the start of the flat the group rode 3km in 7:44 at 5.55 w/kg, Nibali was a bit faster, achieving 5.87 w/kg.
At the start of the flat part Froome came to the fore again but went to the back soon after for the rest of this part.
After the flat they had to ride another 6.8k. That's where Froome took the lead again and started chasing the Nibali group. Evans got droped after 700 meters, Schleck after another 800 and finaly the Nibali group got caught after another 440. Froome then launched his attack immediately, only Pinot was really able to follow him, VdB and Nibali gained no ground until he slowed down to wait for Wiggins.
Froome rode these last 6.8kms in 16:12 at 5.9 w/kg, Wiggins got close to this, the rest are around 5.7 w/kg (they had a lead when they started this part, thus they rode slower).
During the first 6.5k from the bottom of the climb to the first Nibali attack, the bunch rode at 5.6 w/kg for 18:38.
Conclusions:
-I have no life
-The flat part half way up somewhat reduces the wattage for the whole of the climb, Frrome should be closer to 5.7 average w/kg for the uphill parts while having to wait for wiggins. These are Contador numbers...while digesting steak. Who knows what would happen if they let him loose.
-Going from 5.55 w/kg over 7:44 to 5.9 for 16:12 after resting for 1.7k on the flat suggests that his recuperation is astonishing, could be normal for a pro though, I hope someone here knows more about this.
Again numbers could be off for various reasons, so a grain of salt needs to be applied.
Many thanks for this info. I'm not verifying your methods or all the calculations but can say that Science of Sport predicted a credible performance around 6W/kg for the top riders on a climb like this. Nice to see your numbers put them all below this, though that is not definitive proof of anything of course.
Edited by ianrussell on 13-07-2012 16:44
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 17:26
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CLURPR wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
Wiggins saying "I can never dope because it would cost me everything"? I remember Kohl saying the very same.
That is the bare truth though is that he would. He would give the British people to finally cheer about something this summer, after Euro 2012 and Murray losing. So many people are getting behind him to win this years Tour and then to find out he was doping, it would be a crushing blow to everyone and most likely Wiggins and his family would probably have to leave the country, simply because of the spotlight the British media would put on him and his family and by some hooligans making death threats to his family or something.
So my point about this being an anti british thread is proven
I might actually find a bit of evidence on here if i read for long enough. All i've found so far is rumour and speculation. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 17:34
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ringo182 wrote:
So my point about this being an anti british thread is proven
Thank god the Brits are winning. Everybody here waited so long to make a thread like this
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| kumazan |
Posted on 13-07-2012 17:41
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Funniest thing is that he's replying to a British poster! A British poster who is defending Sky no less!
Comedy gold. 
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| Gaffeff |
Posted on 13-07-2012 17:49
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ringo182 wrote:
[
So my point about this being an anti british thread is proven
I might actually find a bit of evidence on here if i read for long enough. All i've found so far is rumour and speculation.
Not sure I saw the anti-British thing in that statement and I am British. I assume they're using what happened to David Beckham after his Red card as an example.
I'm not sure we'd be that bothered, I think we'd just collectively say "we always knew it wasn't legit, and that it isn't a real sport anyway" and watch the test match. |
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| Goldberger |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:13
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https://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/...dope-drugs
issoisso and aquarius, thoughts on this? bullshit?
I find it very interesting considering retrospective testing and the fact that Armstrong could be exposed now. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:15
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The comments are so naive.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:25
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I think it's the 3rd time it has been posted So there are already some comments, read from here:
https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....ost_549325
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:43
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Clearly we're speculating, but hopefully time will tell, so that there'll be no room for speculation.
Call me cynical, but even though he sounds sincere and makes a lot of sense, I'm afraid I've read or heard things along those lines too many times before to consider it as a proof of anything.
Funny thing is when he considers himself third to Klöden, or when he gives Froome and Hesjedal performances as references of clean cycling. I know it would be awkward by him to talk against them, but, they're not exactly the first names that come to my mind when thinking of clean cyclists. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:46
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Aquarius wrote:
Clearly we're speculating, but hopefully time will tell, so that there'll be no room for speculation.
Call me cynical, but even though he sounds sincere and makes a lot of sense, I'm afraid I've read or heard things along those lines too many times before to consider it as a proof of anything.
Funny thing is when he considers himself third to Klöden, or when he gives Froome and Hesjedal performances as references of clean cycling. I know it would be awkward by him to talk against them, but, they're not exactly the first names that come to my mind when thinking of clean cyclists.
Hesjedal?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:53
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Clearly we're speculating, but hopefully time will tell, so that there'll be no room for speculation.
Call me cynical, but even though he sounds sincere and makes a lot of sense, I'm afraid I've read or heard things along those lines too many times before to consider it as a proof of anything.
Funny thing is when he considers himself third to Klöden, or when he gives Froome and Hesjedal performances as references of clean cycling. I know it would be awkward by him to talk against them, but, they're not exactly the first names that come to my mind when thinking of clean cyclists.
Hesjedal?
Yes. Hesjedal is slighlty suspicious even in my opinion. He hasn't come out of nowhere though.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:55
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Until he signs with Sky, this is going to remain off-topic, but, to explain my feelings about Hesjedal :
- Performing close or slightly above the limits of acceptable.
- Trains in Gijona, of all places (might as well be training in Saint-Moritz or Tenerife).
- Has ridden for a nice collection of teams : US Postal, Discovery, Phonak, Garmin Reserve, Garmin.
- Former good MTBer (I admit it's being a little unfair, but MTBers don't really have a reputation of cleanness).
I know it's no proof or even hardly solid evidence, but let's say there are reasons to put a question mark on him. |
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