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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 25-09-2014 15:49
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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matt17br wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
I think you need to delve deeper into Kristoff's results. Let's take it race by race: Qatar fairly poor for a sprinter. Oman had 1 good stage, otherwise beaten by many other sprinters. Paris-Nice was always beaten by lower rated riders. Did win MSR, but look at the Top10 and it certainly wasn't a "sprinters" race. Great run of classiscs, but that's more about cobbles for PCM than SP. Great results in Norway races, but they were hardly against great opposition (Ciolek in Uno-X, no-one in Fjords). Behind Sagan and Cavendish and Modolo in Suisse both times. Good in Arctic Race, but i wouldn't say special as Hushovd was his toughest opponent in terms of form and results. Good at Vattenfal, but Gerrans 3rd tells you a lot. And of course he was strong in the Tour, but no more strong than Greipel or Kittel.
Overall it's a decent season, but nothing outstanding outside Le Tour. It's equivalent to Demare and Bouhanni. Even Viviani has enough similar level results. Matthews has out race him as many times this season as Kristoff has to Matthews. 81SP is massivley overstating his season results, even 79 i'd say is going too far.
Give him a strong HL, strong CB, strong support stats but drop his SP down to 78
You certainly have a good point, but not enough good to down him to 78...
79 neither, primarily because he defeated mostly every sprinter on 79.
And I don't see how Greipel was better than him in Le Tour, and he demonstrated that he can compete even with Kittel in a pure sprint (even if only in the 3rd week, see Champs Elysees)
As for the other results, well, you can't be in shape all the season. He had his peaks in the Tour and after that. MSR isn't the reason he is on 81, he has an excellent stamina and hill resistance so it was fairly easy to win the sprint.
I won't have problems putting him on 80, though.
@Ollfardh, yeah, that will be a good compromise, I'd up his acc, too, if we down his sp. Though, yeah, I'd wait for the WC, when we will see if he's a better sprinter than Degenkolb and Bouhanni.
Degenkolb will not be at his best at the WC. I like him, but atm i honestly don't think, that he will be under the top 10.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 25-09-2014 19:48
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Modolo 78 or 79 in the DB??? |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-09-2014 20:36
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 857
Joined: 13-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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WTF why do you hate that guy? Come on, half of the races mentioned were early season where his form wasn't the best. What did Nibali do except of le Tour, which I think was really boring for the GC, unlike the hilly sprints where Kittel was dropped. And an even better example: What did Cav do in early season except wins against an 78.5 Sagan |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 08:10
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Bot Agent
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| Cossack |
Posted on 25-09-2014 20:44
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Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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If you mean Kristoff, then remember that his first peak was for MSR and cobbled classics, so he had to be in form there, especially as we can see he delivered some great results in those races (MSR, Flanders).
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 25-09-2014 20:45
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1246
Joined: 26-02-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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dark_x2012 wrote:
WTF why do you hate that guy? Come on, half of the races mentioned were early season where his form wasn't the best. What did Nibali do except of le Tour, which I think was really boring for the GC, unlike the hilly sprints where Kittel was dropped. And an even better example: What did Cav do in early season except wins against an 78.5 Sagan
you have a point, but don't you see the difference: Both Nibali and Cav have been delivering for years already, so when they don't score much in a season (or score big, but in a limited number of races) that doesn't justify rating them lower. However, Kristoff would have never ever gotten a 80 SP in former years. Iirc he was on 78 back in 2013 - or even 77. We all know he improved, but still that is no reason to give him 81 SP. Just as well as Aru shouldn't have 80 or even 81 MO and Wellens (sadly  ) shouldn't have 80 in FL,HI,TT and ACC (last one was a bit over the top, but you get what I'm saying.)
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-09-2014 21:02
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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AiZaK wrote:
Modolo 78 or 79 in the DB???
He is on 78. 1 point lower than Sagan and Nizzolo.
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| Bosskardo |
Posted on 27-09-2014 10:34
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Sprinter
Posts: 1559
Joined: 07-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I noticed that there are a lot of Estonian riders who have already retired (marked with red)
I think they should be removed and replaced with other Estonians (listed with decreasing strenght - imo):
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...Oskar_nisu
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...immo_Jeret
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...eter_Pruus
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/.../Karlo_Aia
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...ter_Tarvis
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...Risto_Raid
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...el_nommela
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/...rik_Puntso
Edited by Bosskardo on 27-09-2014 10:36
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| matt17br |
Posted on 27-09-2014 10:47
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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More a thing for the bug reports thread, but still thank you. If I have time I will further look into it, since it is objectively not a major problem, but I will see
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| Cossack |
Posted on 28-09-2014 15:40
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Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Kwiatek up STA (he clearly coped well with the distance both in Ardennes and in WC especially) and 81 DH (WC was just the best example, but in many races he uses his amazing downhill skills, he's now one of the best descenders in the peleton).
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 28-09-2014 15:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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I don't think his stats should be changed. The parcours favored him, he made an attack, and they would have easily caught him if they tried at all.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Cossack |
Posted on 28-09-2014 15:53
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Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm not calling for a big upgrade, most of his stats are fine now.
His STA is 76 while Gilbert is 79 and Valverde, Gerrans and Martin are 78. He should be on par with them.
His DH is 78 which is way too low. Let alone WC, just look at several TdF stages (including 2013 too) and Pais Vasco where he used amazing descending skills to bridge the gaps/break away.
Edited by Cossack on 28-09-2014 15:53
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 28-09-2014 15:57
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Preety much, his downhill was too low anyway before the Worlds, something to fix. And his stamina needs an update of course. Preety much the only changes.
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| Cossack |
Posted on 28-09-2014 16:00
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Domestique
Posts: 582
Joined: 16-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Maybe also a small increase in FTR. Currently he is 73, same as Gerrans. I think we can agree he's a more aggressive rider than Gerro, who's mostly relying on his sprint at the end of classics.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 28-09-2014 22:30
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Cossack wrote:
Kwiatek up STA (he clearly coped well with the distance both in Ardennes and in WC especially) and 81 DH (WC was just the best example, but in many races he uses his amazing downhill skills, he's now one of the best descenders in the peleton).
I agree with this in terms of stamina BUT in another separate issue, just how effective are downhill skills in the game? For example in the game would Kwiatkowski be able to use a high downhill stat to stay away from the chasing riders? |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 28-09-2014 23:29
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Cossack wrote:
Kwiatek up STA (he clearly coped well with the distance both in Ardennes and in WC especially) and 81 DH (WC was just the best example, but in many races he uses his amazing downhill skills, he's now one of the best descenders in the peleton).
I agree with this in terms of stamina BUT in another separate issue, just how effective are downhill skills in the game? For example in the game would Kwiatkowski be able to use a high downhill stat to stay away from the chasing riders?
When it doesn't affect riders that much, it means, that there are no problems in giving him that downhill stat...
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 28-09-2014 23:36
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Cossack wrote:
Kwiatek up STA (he clearly coped well with the distance both in Ardennes and in WC especially) and 81 DH (WC was just the best example, but in many races he uses his amazing downhill skills, he's now one of the best descenders in the peleton).
I agree with this in terms of stamina BUT in another separate issue, just how effective are downhill skills in the game? For example in the game would Kwiatkowski be able to use a high downhill stat to stay away from the chasing riders?
When it doesn't affect riders that much, it means, that there are no problems in giving him that downhill stat...
I just mentioned it as I've never really noticed the benefits of a great downhill stat in the game. I often choose Astana which means Nibali when I play a GT and I don't ever remember gaining time on rivals use downhill stats considering he's meant to be the best in the business going downhill.
Also do you guys downhill at max effort 99 or just go at the effort you're already on? |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 29-09-2014 08:51
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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We're all talking about Kwiat, but what about Michael Valgren Andersen? He was one of the better in the race yesterday, maybe an upgrade for him as well?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 29-09-2014 09:20
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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Maybe a small increase. He wasn't the powerhouse of the late break, that was Kiriyenka and De Marchi. He was also instantly blitzed by every big rider to come past. Very similar in many ways to Nechita last year who did get a small upgrade.
But for Andersen his biggest change should be based on his Denmark wins, 4 Jours and Fjords results which are more impressive in my opinion than being last of a break in a long one-day race.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 29-09-2014 09:40
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Maybe a small increase. He wasn't the powerhouse of the late break, that was Kiriyenka and De Marchi. He was also instantly blitzed by every big rider to come past. Very similar in many ways to Nechita last year who did get a small upgrade.
But for Andersen his biggest change should be based on his Denmark wins, 4 Jours and Fjords results which are more impressive in my opinion than being last of a break in a long one-day race.
He was the last one on Kwiatkowskis wheel, he even stayed longer than De Marchi.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 29-09-2014 09:44
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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trekbmc wrote:
He was the last one on Kwiatkowskis wheel, he even stayed longer than De Marchi.
If that's holding a wheel, then i am a 5 star climber. If you look at the order the break was dropped it was pretty much the order in which they worked. Valgren did some, but less than both Kiri and De Marchi so would expect him to last a bit longer
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