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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:43
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Like, if Rogers could do that, then bring back the closest rival to Wiggins who can now hardly hang on to the group, that means Rogers is stronger than a large majority of other riders, if able to work for himself he could probably easily podium this Tour, maybe have a chance of winning.
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"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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| litllemagnum |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:43
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Please someone ban this troll. This is just to embarassing.
Pozzato sucks!
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| kadel |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:44
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marble wrote:
CountArach wrote:
marble wrote:
litllemagnum wrote:
Sky fanboys using Pinot as an excuse that sky isn't doping...
There are 4 Sky guys here who could win the tour if they didn't have to ride for eachother. Seriously come back to the real world.
The fact that Rogers isn't dropping Pinot really shows how good Rogers is right? People are even getting back up in the group at the moment. As soon as someone decides to increase the pace a little, I'm sure Rogers will be gone.
That's ridiculous. Pinot is a far, far, far better climber than Rogers. Rogers was the one setting the pace that made this incredibly elite selection and dropped riders with a better track record of strong results in the mountains.
Wait so what are these strong results that make him so much better than Rogers? His win in Settimana Lombarda last year? And I'm not saying Rogers is definitely better, I'm saying Pinot can actually hang onto Rogers... And Pinot's results aren't exactly extreme either. So what Rogers is doing at the moment isn't all that amazing. Most of the strong guys that Rogers dropped have a problem of a sort or seem to be doing worse cause of old age.
Pinot age 22
Rogers age 32
For which rider would it be more natural to develop climbing skills at this point? |
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| marble |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:44
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Eden95 wrote:
Like, if Rogers could do that, then bring back the closest rival to Wiggins who can now hardly hang on to the group, that means Rogers is stronger than a large majority of other riders, if able to work for himself he could probably easily podium this Tour, maybe have a chance of winning. Well even Van Garderen dropped Evans there, are you really saying that was Evans at his best? |
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| samdiatmh |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:46
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Evans at his best was stage 18 last year, he doesn't look anywhere near that today
Edited by samdiatmh on 12-07-2012 15:47
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:50
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Because he put in a big effort to get away from the group, it was a large acceleration which Evans doesn't normally do, he might accelerate to the front and pull hard. It is different to his normal 'diesel' climbing style. He got accross to Van Garderen and didn't have time to recover. He might not be feeling 100%, but still.
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"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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| marble |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:52
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kadel wrote:
marble wrote:
CountArach wrote:
marble wrote:
litllemagnum wrote:
Sky fanboys using Pinot as an excuse that sky isn't doping...
There are 4 Sky guys here who could win the tour if they didn't have to ride for eachother. Seriously come back to the real world.
The fact that Rogers isn't dropping Pinot really shows how good Rogers is right? People are even getting back up in the group at the moment. As soon as someone decides to increase the pace a little, I'm sure Rogers will be gone.
That's ridiculous. Pinot is a far, far, far better climber than Rogers. Rogers was the one setting the pace that made this incredibly elite selection and dropped riders with a better track record of strong results in the mountains.
Wait so what are these strong results that make him so much better than Rogers? His win in Settimana Lombarda last year? And I'm not saying Rogers is definitely better, I'm saying Pinot can actually hang onto Rogers... And Pinot's results aren't exactly extreme either. So what Rogers is doing at the moment isn't all that amazing. Most of the strong guys that Rogers dropped have a problem of a sort or seem to be doing worse cause of old age.
Pinot age 22
Rogers age 32
For which rider would it be more natural to develop climbing skills at this point?
You're avoiding one point though, the fact that alot of the contenders are gone, and alot of the contenders have an injury that prevents them from competing at their highest level. Pinot is a huge talent, and likely to win alot in the future. But I don't see him as being world class just yet. It is however also possible (Note: I'm saying it's possible and not that this is Rogers case) to improve alot when you're old aswell. Like I mentioned before with Tondo. However I believe at least one of the reasons why Sky is doing extremely well is because of the weak field. Now it remains to see how it will do up the last mountain against the who riders who are still on form, we still haven't seen a proper Sky vs. Van den Broecke.
And just to get it out there, I have never been an extreme Sky fan. I just don't like accusing people before there is any proof, which there isn't in this case. If Sky can get away with doping, then it's naive to believe they are the only ones who can anyway. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 12-07-2012 15:54
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marble wrote:
CountArach wrote:
marble wrote:
litllemagnum wrote:
Sky fanboys using Pinot as an excuse that sky isn't doping...
There are 4 Sky guys here who could win the tour if they didn't have to ride for eachother. Seriously come back to the real world.
The fact that Rogers isn't dropping Pinot really shows how good Rogers is right? People are even getting back up in the group at the moment. As soon as someone decides to increase the pace a little, I'm sure Rogers will be gone.
That's ridiculous. Pinot is a far, far, far better climber than Rogers. Rogers was the one setting the pace that made this incredibly elite selection and dropped riders with a better track record of strong results in the mountains.
Wait so what are these strong results that make him so much better than Rogers? His win in Settimana Lombarda last year? And I'm not saying Rogers is definitely better, I'm saying Pinot can actually hang onto Rogers... And Pinot's results aren't exactly extreme either. So what Rogers is doing at the moment isn't all that amazing. Most of the strong guys that Rogers dropped have a problem of a sort or seem to be doing worse cause of old age.
Yes that one. Or his win up Grand Colombier last year. Or second place up La Toussuire last year.
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| marble |
Posted on 12-07-2012 16:09
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CountArach wrote:
marble wrote:
CountArach wrote:
marble wrote:
litllemagnum wrote:
Sky fanboys using Pinot as an excuse that sky isn't doping...
There are 4 Sky guys here who could win the tour if they didn't have to ride for eachother. Seriously come back to the real world.
The fact that Rogers isn't dropping Pinot really shows how good Rogers is right? People are even getting back up in the group at the moment. As soon as someone decides to increase the pace a little, I'm sure Rogers will be gone.
That's ridiculous. Pinot is a far, far, far better climber than Rogers. Rogers was the one setting the pace that made this incredibly elite selection and dropped riders with a better track record of strong results in the mountains.
Wait so what are these strong results that make him so much better than Rogers? His win in Settimana Lombarda last year? And I'm not saying Rogers is definitely better, I'm saying Pinot can actually hang onto Rogers... And Pinot's results aren't exactly extreme either. So what Rogers is doing at the moment isn't all that amazing. Most of the strong guys that Rogers dropped have a problem of a sort or seem to be doing worse cause of old age.
Yes that one. Or his win up Grand Colombier last year. Or second place up La Toussuire last year.
Sure he's got talent, but winning a 2.1 stage is still not world class to me. Second place in the Dauphine though shows the talent he has, but it doesn't automatically make him one of the best in the world. There has been riders before having decent results in the Dauphine, but had no chance at having a decent GC result in the Tour. Pinot was one of a few who was still hanging on earlier, and based on his results he really shouldn't be among the very, very best in the Tour just yet. But instead of looking at all the names Rogers has dropped, look at those he didn't drop. Would you have screamed that Sky were doped IF they dropped a Pinot in shape, and nobody else worth mentioning? No, you probably wouldn't.
In Rogers defense, he has a top 10 GC result from the Tour before, and would've probably had an even better result had he not crashed out in 2007. He's not totally useless at his best. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 12-07-2012 16:12
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His best was 5 years ago and last year's results were poor. That's what I find disturbing here.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 12-07-2012 16:31
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marble wrote:
It is however also possible (Note: I'm saying it's possible and not that this is Rogers case) to improve alot when you're old aswell. Like I mentioned before with Tondo. However I believe at least one of the reasons why Sky is doing extremely well is because of the weak field. Now it remains to see how it will do up the last mountain against the who riders who are still on form, we still haven't seen a proper Sky vs. Van den Broecke.
Yes, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that 4 -- 4 riders from the same team - but notice, only them, not anyone else from that team - improve massively in such a small a period, from decent and mediocre to near world best? Besides, the weak field part does not apply to the other races Wiggins won this year.
And btw, I've seen some people talking about Westra and how he beat Wiggins on Mende this year - should be remembered Westra was peaking for Paris - Nice this season.
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| Teddy The Creator |
Posted on 12-07-2012 16:43
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It seems their dope wore off two weeks early. 
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| marble |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:10
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lluuiiggii wrote:
marble wrote:
It is however also possible (Note: I'm saying it's possible and not that this is Rogers case) to improve alot when you're old aswell. Like I mentioned before with Tondo. However I believe at least one of the reasons why Sky is doing extremely well is because of the weak field. Now it remains to see how it will do up the last mountain against the who riders who are still on form, we still haven't seen a proper Sky vs. Van den Broecke.
Yes, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that 4 -- 4 riders from the same team - but notice, only them, not anyone else from that team - improve massively in such a small a period, from decent and mediocre to near world best? Besides, the weak field part does not apply to the other races Wiggins won this year.
And btw, I've seen some people talking about Westra and how he beat Wiggins on Mende this year - should be remembered Westra was peaking for Paris - Nice this season.
Well, Rogers, Porte and Wiggins had decent results at other teams before they moved to Sky.  And yeah, they may have improved, but they're not the only ones who are better now
I'm not counting out that they are doping, I just don't think they deserved the shitstorm they got here, and I felt alot of people here were pretty one-sided and acted like it was only Sky that could possibly be doing anything illegal, and was the worst team around.
But now look at Sky. Rogers was kind of insane today, he pulled for long but in the end alot of riders caught up, it was only a matter of time before he would blow really. If someone had attacked, I'm sure they'd put Porte upfront immidiately. Porte didn't really pull for that long though, so it wasn't really a sing of strength today. And in the end, they're just wasting all their energy, the others have to actually keep at a rhythm so they won't blow. But yeah, I thought at least Nibali and Van den Broecke would've been in a pretty good shape, and Wiggins and Froome are keeping up with them. I kinda doubt Porte and Rogers would've though, even if they tried.
I'm not trying to use the weak field argument to explain Wiggins and Froome's performances. Just Porte and Rogers'
And yeah, the other races Wiggins won didn't have a bad field either. But how many of the riders we rate as the best climbers actually challenged him there? In the end Wiggins won Romandie in a Mountain TT against Talansky, by one second. And it's not impossible to peak early in the season for races like Paris-Nice, and then again for the Tour, if it wasn't for the prologue he wouldn't have beaten Westra. The Dauphine was pretty controlled as well, another race where he took the win because of the time he gained in the time trials. Looks like he might do the same in the Tour. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:10
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ridiculous. The fact is that Froome drove several times, droppped and recovered without even grimacing.I was waiting for someone to just run out in th road and push him off, but unfortunatley it didn't happen.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:11
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marble wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
marble wrote:
It is however also possible (Note: I'm saying it's possible and not that this is Rogers case) to improve alot when you're old aswell. Like I mentioned before with Tondo. However I believe at least one of the reasons why Sky is doing extremely well is because of the weak field. Now it remains to see how it will do up the last mountain against the who riders who are still on form, we still haven't seen a proper Sky vs. Van den Broecke.
Yes, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that 4 -- 4 riders from the same team - but notice, only them, not anyone else from that team - improve massively in such a small a period, from decent and mediocre to near world best? Besides, the weak field part does not apply to the other races Wiggins won this year.
And btw, I've seen some people talking about Westra and how he beat Wiggins on Mende this year - should be remembered Westra was peaking for Paris - Nice this season.
Well, Rogers, Porte and Wiggins had decent results at other teams before they moved to Sky. And yeah, they may have improved, but they're not the only ones who are better now
I'm not counting out that they are doping, I just don't think they deserved the shitstorm they got here, and I felt alot of people here were pretty one-sided and acted like it was only Sky that could possibly be doing anything illegal, and was the worst team around.
But now look at Sky. Rogers was kind of insane today, he pulled for long but in the end alot of riders caught up, it was only a matter of time before he would blow really. If someone had attacked, I'm sure they'd put Porte upfront immidiately. Porte didn't really pull for that long though, so it wasn't really a sing of strength today. And in the end, they're just wasting all their energy, the others have to actually keep at a rhythm so they won't blow. But yeah, I thought at least Nibali and Van den Broecke would've been in a pretty good shape, and Wiggins and Froome are keeping up with them. I kinda doubt Porte and Rogers would've though, even if they tried.
I'm not trying to use the weak field argument to explain Wiggins and Froome's performances. Just Porte and Rogers'
And yeah, the other races Wiggins won didn't have a bad field either. But how many of the riders we rate as the best climbers actually challenged him there? In the end Wiggins won Romandie in a Mountain TT against Talansky, by one second. And it's not impossible to peak early in the season for races like Paris-Nice, and then again for the Tour, if it wasn't for the prologue he wouldn't have beaten Westra. The Dauphine was pretty controlled as well, another race where he took the win because of the time he gained in the time trials. Looks like he might do the same in the Tour.
Did you see today's stage?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:13
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After today I find Sky more believable. Evans blowing showed that he isn't at his best, Nibali, VDB and Pinot managed to hang on, I mean sure they're good but Pinot? When Evans and co are dropped - yes he's very talented but still.  |
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| marble |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:14
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Did you see today's stage?
Yes I did, did you? |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:14
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As Alakagom requested: OMG OMG Did you see that Froome is not human.
Seriously: This guy is nuts on nuts |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:15
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jph27 wrote:
After today I find Sky more believable. Evans blowing showed that he isn't at his best, Nibali, VDB and Pinot managed to hang on, I mean sure they're good but Pinot? When Evans and co are dropped - yes he's very talented but still.
If, say, Eduard Vorganov starts drilling the climbs in the next Tour de France, will you find it believable because other top climbers stay with him?
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| jph27 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:17
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kumazan wrote:
jph27 wrote:
After today I find Sky more believable. Evans blowing showed that he isn't at his best, Nibali, VDB and Pinot managed to hang on, I mean sure they're good but Pinot? When Evans and co are dropped - yes he's very talented but still.
If, say, Eduard Vorganov starts drilling the climbs in the next Tour de France, will you find it believable because other top climbers stay with him?
I find this performance more believable than on Planche des belles filles. But the that doesn't say a lot.
Vorganov is a decent climber actually, wouldn't surprise me to see him Top 10 a GT in future. |
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