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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Gino_Bartali |
Posted on 11-07-2012 20:57
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Junior Rider
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Bushwackers wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
jph27 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
jph27 wrote:
One wonders how much of Bushwackers support for TGDP (The Great Danny Pate) is down to them being from the same state.
I really do't understand what the Danny Pate hate is about though.
It's not TGDP hate, it's simply that not everyone loves him as much as Bushwackers.
Everyone is always being sarcastic about him. Like an inside joke. I'm relatively new to the site, so I just don't get it.
It's really that simple. Bushwackers is always saying Pate is a better climber than Siutsou, that no one in the peloton can pull on the front as long and fast as him, etc etc.
So we laugh about it.
He is pretty good at pulling on the front. But whatever.
Well it looks like we have another Dan-Fan here. That makes 2!
Seriously though, I just like to point out that he is one of the most underrated riders in the sport, and most people would be surprised at what he could accomplish if he were given the opportunity/had the right conditions.
If u rly think pate is so much better than sivtsov just compare what they achieved last season.
pate won the KoM in montreal (which is ok, but not rly a great result).
sivstov was 9th at the giro and 8th at the dauphine; this shows that hes a decent rider in stage races, maybe not for winning them but definitely as a very good domestique.
and something else to pate; he may be an ok cyclist, but when u look at his career achievements there is kind of not even one very good result (maybe 3rd overall criterium international, but thats also already 3 years ago)
Edited by Gino_Bartali on 11-07-2012 21:00
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 14:34
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| SaddleSore |
Posted on 11-07-2012 20:58
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lluuiiggii wrote:
SaddleSore wrote:
and might I add what evidence do you accuse SKY with?? Being successful, I've only applied that to my logic with Voeckler, plus Voeckler had/has an injury???
That's what these 25 pages are about, did you read them?
But anyway, issoisso (always  ) does a good job in summing them up here:
issoisso wrote:
Have you read the whole thread? There's tons of stuff that absolutely stinks on this team.
From the crooked doping doctor, to the insane overnight transformation of riders from also rans to superstars (lose tons of weight and massively IMPROVE your time trialling? what? impossible), to many of them being listed by the UCI's blood passport people as "Overwhelming evidence of doping, to Rogers claiming he's doing better power numbers than ever when he's been on pretty heavy doping programs before....
Yes I have, hence my statement...
But where is the proof and subsequent police raids on team HQ's and hotels.....we've had the first rest day, nothing.....why? |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 11-07-2012 20:59
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Grand Tour Champion
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SaddleSore wrote:
yes I was being sarcastic,....I was simply saying that he won a stage so he must of doped, as many on here seem to think anyone succesful must dope..
There has been so many non-based arguments here that you have almost no chance to know if something is sarcasm.
I accept that Froome is riding really well but that's all it is....unless proven otherwise....plus to breakthrough you have to do it sometime in your career and this is his
I still do not understand where some people are getting the idea that you do have to breakthrough sometime in your career. Take a look in almost all athletes, you'll notice a improving line in results, not a jump from 1st Anatomic Jock Race to 2nd in the Vuelta.
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| Movistar |
Posted on 11-07-2012 21:12
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Domestique
Posts: 424
Joined: 05-06-2012
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Yeah I do - because I'm consideruing also few basic facts you guys seem to forget anout for some reason.
of these 191 guys,
a) 3/4 do not care about GC, so we'll never know what could they achieve if they wanted - they're simply out of this comparison.
b) quite a lot sufffered from crashes so they are obviously underperforing
c) turns out that the remaining people who could do better, but do match up Sky are not that many - few leaders and some of their lieutenets 15-20 cyclists maybe?
So it does make sanse that 5 cyclist are doing a lot better than the other 20. It's natural. It may happen. And who knows - in few days the luck may turn and BMC will start to dominate. Will you start accusing them as well?
What the hell are you talking about? if you believe this there is no point even responding to your posts. |
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 11-07-2012 22:48
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Two question for debate
1. How do you prove you are not a doper?
2. If you don't test positive an are not implicated by fellow teammates (a la Armstrong). At what point do you accept a sportsman is clean?
Just trying to establish what levels of proof or evidence different people here require.
Nobody is normal
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 11-07-2012 22:49
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Tour de France Champion
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drugsdontwork wrote:
Two question for debate
1. How do you prove you are not a doper?
2. If you don't test positive an are not implicated by fellow teammates (a la Armstrong). At what point do you accept a sportsman is clean?
Just trying to establish what levels of proof or evidence different people here require.
Well, since the teammates are benefiting too, they won't rat out the leader.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 11-07-2012 23:02
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baseballlover312 wrote:
drugsdontwork wrote:
Two question for debate
1. How do you prove you are not a doper?
2. If you don't test positive an are not implicated by fellow teammates (a la Armstrong). At what point do you accept a sportsman is clean?
Just trying to establish what levels of proof or evidence different people here require.
Well, since the teammates are benefiting too, they won't rat out the leader.
Not always true, but back to the questions.
Nobody is normal
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| 9-Ball |
Posted on 11-07-2012 23:10
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Domestique
Posts: 477
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Valid questions and never easy to answer. I'll have a go later on when I have more time. For the philosophical arguments I would add the question of how we consider what positive affect different types of doping have? Also, what would we think of a no-testing environment where any compound/drug/etc is allowed/ignored and what we would then make of the results of such. Given this was largely the atmosphere for several decades, it's an interesting idea. I'm not advocating it, for the record, but I'd be interested to read opinions.
It was eleven more than necessary.
Jacques Anquetil
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 11-07-2012 23:43
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Domestique
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For all people saying Leinders in the team doctor, he actually isn't thats Steve Peters. |
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| danto194 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 00:12
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It's a shame that great achievements are often viewed as suspect in this sport but that's the nature of cycling I guess.
The fact is that Sky as a team and the individuals that make up its sum parts have trained harder and taken the preparation races a lot more seriously than any other team partaking in the TDF. Practice makes perfect after all, look at Evans in the run up to TDF 2011, he barely put a foot wrong. |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 12-07-2012 00:26
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Grand Tour Champion
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CLURPR wrote:
For all people saying Leinders in the team doctor, he actually isn't thats Steve Peters.
Yeah, what must Dave Brailsford know about Sky after all?
https://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and...ent-clean/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othe...andal.html
You can find dozens more links but I think point is made.
danto194 wrote:
The fact is that Sky as a team and the individuals that make up its sum parts have trained harder and taken the preparation races a lot more seriously than any other team partaking in the TDF.
The idea that you can train harder and take things more seriously in such level and by doing so improve that much is laughable. I mean, it's the elite of the elite athletes of a global sport, do you think anybody would ever reach such level without training to it's maximum?
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| marble |
Posted on 12-07-2012 00:46
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lluuiiggii wrote:
danto194 wrote:
The fact is that Sky as a team and the individuals that make up its sum parts have trained harder and taken the preparation races a lot more seriously than any other team partaking in the TDF.
The idea that you can train harder and take things more seriously in such level and by doing so improve that much is laughable. I mean, it's the elite of the elite athletes of a global sport, do you think anybody would ever reach such level without training to it's maximum?
Everything is relative, it is possible that they trained harder and more seriously than they themselves had done before, thus resulting in better results on their part. |
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| Movistar |
Posted on 12-07-2012 00:51
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Domestique
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I think the biggest evidence in this whole thing was mentioned in one of the articles posted and that is SKYs sudden change in attitude in regards to doping and how the discuss it.
Only one things causes you to go from complete openness in regards to doping to hiding, hiring a dirty doctor, and saying fuck you to doping questions.
YOUR ARE DOPING |
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 00:51
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Tour de France Champion
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Is it alledged doping or is it just Sky Jealousy  |
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 12-07-2012 00:52
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Domestique
Posts: 452
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lluuiiggii wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
For all people saying Leinders in the team doctor, he actually isn't thats Steve Peters.
Yeah, what must Dave Brailsford know about Sky after all?
https://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and...ent-clean/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othe...andal.html
You can find dozens more links but I think point is made.
danto194 wrote:
The fact is that Sky as a team and the individuals that make up its sum parts have trained harder and taken the preparation races a lot more seriously than any other team partaking in the TDF.
The idea that you can train harder and take things more seriously in such level and by doing so improve that much is laughable. I mean, it's the elite of the elite athletes of a global sport, do you think anybody would ever reach such level without training to it's maximum?
Quote from first article:
'Team Sky’s Dr Steve Peters, the head of the medical operation', shows Leinders isn't running the show and is only working for Sky 80 days a year. I'm not saying he isn't involved in anything plus he isn't at the Tour de France and I don't think the other medical staff and Brailsford would let the others openly dope. |
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| Crommy |
Posted on 12-07-2012 01:00
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
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CLURPR wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
For all people saying Leinders in the team doctor, he actually isn't thats Steve Peters.
Yeah, what must Dave Brailsford know about Sky after all?
https://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and...ent-clean/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othe...andal.html
You can find dozens more links but I think point is made.
danto194 wrote:
The fact is that Sky as a team and the individuals that make up its sum parts have trained harder and taken the preparation races a lot more seriously than any other team partaking in the TDF.
The idea that you can train harder and take things more seriously in such level and by doing so improve that much is laughable. I mean, it's the elite of the elite athletes of a global sport, do you think anybody would ever reach such level without training to it's maximum?
Quote from first article:
'Team Sky’s Dr Steve Peters, the head of the medical operation', shows Leinders isn't running the show and is only working for Sky 80 days a year. I'm not saying he isn't involved in anything plus he isn't at the Tour de France and I don't think the other medical staff and Brailsford would let the others openly dope.
Steve Peters is a psychiatrist
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| Crommy |
Posted on 12-07-2012 01:02
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World Champion
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sutty68 wrote:
Is it alledged doping or is it just Sky Jealousy
What an utterly stupid statement
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 12-07-2012 01:17
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Domestique
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Crommy wrote:
Steve Peters is a psychiatrist
Oh ok you got me there
EDIT: But Leinders is only freelance with Sky, he isn't fully employed
Edited by CLURPR on 12-07-2012 01:18
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 01:19
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World Champion
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CLURPR wrote:
Crommy wrote:
Steve Peters is a psychiatrist
Oh ok you got me there
EDIT: But Leinders is only freelance with Sky, he isn't fully employed
What could he be there for then?
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 12-07-2012 01:22
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
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CLURPR wrote:
Quote from first article:
'Team Sky’s Dr Steve Peters, the head of the medical operation', shows Leinders isn't running the show and is only working for Sky 80 days a year. I'm not saying he isn't involved in anything plus he isn't at the Tour de France and I don't think the other medical staff and Brailsford would let the others openly dope.
"Team Sky’s Dr Steve Peters, the head of the medical operation at the time, confirmed that the bacterial infection that killed Gonzalez was nothing to do with the virus that affected the riders"
When quoting something make sure you don't leave out words that can completely change the meaning of the sentence.
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