jph27 wrote:
One wonders how much of Bushwackers support for TGDP (The Great Danny Pate) is down to them being from the same state.
I really do't understand what the Danny Pate hate is about though.
It's not TGDP hate, it's simply that not everyone loves him as much as Bushwackers.
Everyone is always being sarcastic about him. Like an inside joke. I'm relatively new to the site, so I just don't get it.
It's really that simple. Bushwackers is always saying Pate is a better climber than Siutsou, that no one in the peloton can pull on the front as long and fast as him, etc etc.
So we laugh about it.
He is pretty good at pulling on the front. But whatever.
Well it looks like we have another Dan-Fan here. That makes 2!
Seriously though, I just like to point out that he is one of the most underrated riders in the sport, and most people would be surprised at what he could accomplish if he were given the opportunity/had the right conditions.
Smoku wrote:
I'm just thinking - all this thread is based on an assumption that Sky is overperforming. And what if simply everyone else is underperforming? In doping era this would not be possible - everyone would pump their form up. If cycling now is clean indeed, then we are going to see favourites fade and underdogs getting lifetime results - that's sport.
It's kinda funny that you are using something which may be seen as a proof for the cleanness of the sport as a proof for its fakeness.
Now - I'm not saying that Sky is either clean or cheating. I'm just saying that you are overreacting and misinterpreting some facts.
That makes sense. everyone is underperforming except SKY.
Everyone failed to train good enough for this years tdf.
-> do you seriously believe what you have written?
Yeah I do - because I'm consideruing also few basic facts you guys seem to forget anout for some reason.
of these 191 guys,
a) 3/4 do not care about GC, so we'll never know what could they achieve if they wanted - they're simply out of this comparison.
b) quite a lot sufffered from crashes so they are obviously underperforing
c) turns out that the remaining people who could do better, but do match up Sky are not that many - few leaders and some of their lieutenets 15-20 cyclists maybe?
So it does make sanse that 5 cyclist are doing a lot better than the other 20. It's natural. It may happen. And who knows - in few days the luck may turn and BMC will start to dominate. Will you start accusing them as well?
Five cyclists on one team are gonna do better than 20 riders on many teams? NO.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Smoku wrote:
in few days the luck may turn and BMC will start to dominate. Will you start accusing them as well?
Considering they're the Phonak team with a new sponsor, yes.
Besides, with this level of domination, any team is suspicious. Not that anyone has ever done what Wiggins is about to do, as I pointed before.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
jph27 wrote:
One wonders how much of Bushwackers support for TGDP (The Great Danny Pate) is down to them being from the same state.
I really do't understand what the Danny Pate hate is about though.
It's not TGDP hate, it's simply that not everyone loves him as much as Bushwackers.
Everyone is always being sarcastic about him. Like an inside joke. I'm relatively new to the site, so I just don't get it.
It's really that simple. Bushwackers is always saying Pate is a better climber than Siutsou, that no one in the peloton can pull on the front as long and fast as him, etc etc.
So we laugh about it.
He is pretty good at pulling on the front. But whatever.
Well it looks like we have another Dan-Fan here. That makes 2!
Seriously though, I just like to point out that he is one of the most underrated riders in the sport, and most people would be surprised at what he could accomplish if he were given the opportunity/had the right conditions.
I do like him, but he's not one of my favorites. Good, hard working rider though. But let's end this discussion as it's off topic.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
So Voeckler doped then, I mean he came into the tour carrying a knee problem.....so surely he must have...that rest day does wonders??
Edited by SaddleSore on 11-07-2012 20:40
SaddleSore wrote:
So Voeckler doped then, I mean he came into the tour carrying a knee problem.....so surely he must have...that rest day does wonders??
He won from a break, having previously come 4th in the tour, this is zero evidence.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182]Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
All right, here's my translation of Antoine Vayer's article in Le Monde, mentioned earlier today.
The oval ring, Wiggins secret trick ?
by Antoine Vayer
Is 2012 the year marking the end of doping and Right-wing's absolute freedom of speech ? Of super-power and mega-power ? Lance Armstrong's falling and his friend Nicolas Sarkozy let us hope that after a reasonable 2011 Grande Boucle (nickname of the Tour de France) and with a new president, we would live a "normal" Tour.
Collective hybrid engine
During this first part of the Tour de France, one team has particularly outshine the other ones : Team Sky. British rider Bardley Wiggins and his fellow compatriot Chris Froome absolutely crush the opposition during Monday 9th individual time trial. In Quingey's short hill (1,8 km at 6,56 %), the Maillot Jaune was spotted at almost 450 W.
Think of a collective hybrid engine, made with the heart of Team Festina 1997 riders, and of US Postal 2004 muscles ! Sky has made it, like cars manufacturer Audi did in Le Mans 24 hours, and gained, thanks to it, the stage victory Saturday 7th July, at La Planche des Belles Filles, and the Maillot Jaune. To convince oneself that the Left-wing, with its fully thermal engine, had possibly started governing the business, on the short final mountain of La Planche des Belles Filles (5,9 km at 8,53 % of average slope, and a minor 10 km/h of wind), we expected a time of 16'45" at 450 Watts.
Alas, Sky's first piston, Boasson Hagen, in Le Plancher des Mines, an the ascending fake-flat of 1,6 % average, located prior to the mountain, clutched in at 46,6 km/h during 4'20". Froome, probably recuperating the electrical energy thus produced, was happy with merely reproducing his show from Vuelta 2011's ascension of Pena Cabarga, getting to raise his arms after 16'27" at 21,6 km/h (463 Watts), closely followed by the second "Audi" Wiggins, together with Cadel Evans and Vincenzo Nibali. The French, awkward, are way beyond 17 minutes, with much less than 440 Watts.
The second smaller mountains stage that led to Porentruy on the 8th July, were the Frenchmen from the country that turned to the Left(-wing party) tried to ride with self-confidence by attacking from a distance, made us hope with the hardly-fought victory of Thibault Pinot. It mostly confirmed that liberalism is still ruling the events, and, for most of it, the General Classification. During the ascension of La Croix (3,8 km at 9,18 %), 10 riders pushed the throttle pedal, developing 453 Watts in 11'27" and almost caught our valorous revolutionist Pinot. Change time is not for now. Thatcherists and some allies pedal too hard and will rule the rest of the World.
Former trainer of Team Festina, Antoine Vayer is a performance specialist
***
Don't hold me responsible for the unnecessary metaphors and comparisons.
To help you understand some, the left-wing parties have kicked the right-wing one (Sarkozy's) out of the president job and of the national assembly. François Hollande's slogan was "Change (time) is now". Hyper-presidence was how Sarkozy's style of governing and of having an opinion and actions on every single thing was called.
SaddleSore wrote:
So Voeckler doped then, I mean he came into the tour carrying a knee problem.....so surely he must have...that rest day does wonders??
He won from a break, having previously come 4th in the tour, this is zero evidence.
He came fourth from being in a break that was given too much time from the peloton....
and might I add what evidence do people accuse SKY with?? Being successful, I've only applied that to my logic with Voeckler, plus Voeckler had/has an injury???
Edited by SaddleSore on 11-07-2012 20:49
SaddleSore wrote:
So Voeckler doped then, I mean he came into the tour carrying a knee problem.....so surely he must have...that rest day does wonders??
jph27 wrote:
Vayer is a "performance specialist" - what exactly does that mean? In the Ferrari sense, or in the analyst sense?
Both. He was the Ferrari sense at Festina.
As Vayer himself has said in the past, I don't think we should take anything from numbers for climbs shorter than 30 minutes.
We'll see when he publishes data for tomorrow's stage
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
SaddleSore wrote:
So Voeckler doped then, I mean he came into the tour carrying a knee problem.....so surely he must have...that rest day does wonders??
He won from a break, having previously come 4th in the tour, this is zero evidence.
He came fourth from being in a break that was given too much time from the peloton....
and might I add what evidence do you accuse SKY with?? Being successful, I've only applied that to my logic with Voeckler, plus Voeckler had/has an injury???
Yeah? Froome had parasites for two years and comes back to nearly win the Vuelta, but you back him up.
And Voeckler is a known fighter. He fought hard and we saw that he couldn't do it anymore on the Alpe Duex Huez stage last year. Winning from a break today isn't dominating everyone else.
Edited by baseballlover312 on 11-07-2012 20:50
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
SaddleSore wrote:
and might I add what evidence do you accuse SKY with?? Being successful, I've only applied that to my logic with Voeckler, plus Voeckler had/has an injury???
That's what these 25 pages are about, did you read them?
But anyway, issoisso (always ) does a good job in summing them up here:
issoisso wrote:
Have you read the whole thread? There's tons of stuff that absolutely stinks on this team.
From the crooked doping doctor, to the insane overnight transformation of riders from also rans to superstars (lose tons of weight and massively IMPROVE your time trialling? what? impossible), to many of them being listed by the UCI's blood passport people as "Overwhelming evidence of doping, to Rogers claiming he's doing better power numbers than ever when he's been on pretty heavy doping programs before....
Good article. Does Vayer always throw so many political analogies in his articles though? It makes it a bit difficult to follow at times, and I have an okay(ish) knowledge of French politics.
jph27 wrote:
Vayer is a "performance specialist" - what exactly does that mean? In the Ferrari sense, or in the analyst sense?
He was complicit of Festina doping programs, and sort of led it from a scientific and training point of view. He then was considered a shabby guy for a while, whilst being hired by the Federation at the start of the physiological passport in 1999 (let's call it that, they checked a couple of parameters for every elite rider, amateurs included).
Nowadays, to my knowledge, he's not directly involved any more. I know he sometimes writes such articles, but what else does he do for a living ? No idea.
yes I was being sarcastic,....I was simply saying that he won a stage so he must of doped, as many on here seem to think anyone succesful must dope...
I accept that Froome is riding really well but that's all it is....unless proven otherwise....plus to breakthrough you have to do it sometime in your career and this is his
kumazan wrote:
Good article. Does Vayer always throw so many political analogies in his articles though? It makes it a bit difficult to follow at times, and I have an okay(ish) knowledge of French politics.
Not that I know of.
When I first read it, I thought "WTF is this doing here ?", obviously I know who Vayer didn't vote for. It got even worst when I translated it ("Did he REALLY have to make such analogies ?" ).
Thankfully too, I have a good knowledge of our domestic politics and of sports cars and hybrid engines.
Edited by Aquarius on 11-07-2012 20:55
SaddleSore wrote:
yes I was being sarcastic,....I was simply saying that he won a stage so he must of doped, as many on here seem to think anyone succesful must dope...
I accept that Froome is riding really well but that's all it is....unless proven otherwise....plus to breakthrough you have to do it sometime in your career and this is his
Nobody said something like "he´s winning a TdF stage, so he must be doped". Try to read what most of us makes thinking Sky is doping before making such pointless posts.
This is a funny thread. All the naivity and excuses for the sudden Sky domination this year and Bushwackers Pate love 
