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Tour de France, Stage 9 - Monday, July 9th Arc-et-Senans - Besançon
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| kumazan |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:16
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baseballlover312 wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
ruben wrote:
No mb2612, Nibali overrated himself massively, if he thinks he can be within 1'30 of Wiggins. That would mean top 5 time trial. He has almost never done top 5 in a time trial.
I think my assesment is better
My point is, the gap between Wiggins and Nibali has become massive this year because Wiggins has gotten better, not that Nibali is a good time trialler.
Nibali is normally closer than this in absolute time. the feild is weak this year, meaning Nibali's position has improved, but in time from the leader, this is as far away as he has been for a several years.
As Kumazan said, Nibali is 6-8 against Wiggins in time trials, so why wouldn't he be able to get within 1:30?
I didn't.  The point still stands. Wiggins has beaten Nibali by over 2' in a TT twice in his career. Both this year. Both in the last month.
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:23
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Froome has beaten Cancellara and Martin in a 40km TT??? Who made this db ?
Can anyone tell me if anything happened to the latter 2? (I couldn't watch the stage today due to finals)
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| kumazan |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:25
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Gustavovskiy wrote:
Froome has beaten Cancellara and Martin in a 40km TT??? Who made this db ?
Can anyone tell me if anything happened to the latter 2? (I couldn't watch the stage today due to finals)
Martin is still with his hand (hand right?) injuries. Cancellara just suffered the effect of marginal gains.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:25
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kumazan wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
mb2612 wrote:
ruben wrote:
No mb2612, Nibali overrated himself massively, if he thinks he can be within 1'30 of Wiggins. That would mean top 5 time trial. He has almost never done top 5 in a time trial.
I think my assesment is better
My point is, the gap between Wiggins and Nibali has become massive this year because Wiggins has gotten better, not that Nibali is a good time trialler.
Nibali is normally closer than this in absolute time. the feild is weak this year, meaning Nibali's position has improved, but in time from the leader, this is as far away as he has been for a several years.
As Kumazan said, Nibali is 6-8 against Wiggins in time trials, so why wouldn't he be able to get within 1:30?
I didn't. The point still stands. Wiggins has beaten Nibali by over 2' in a TT twice in his career. Both this year. Both in the last month.
I meant mb####
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:27
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kumazan wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
Froome has beaten Cancellara and Martin in a 40km TT??? Who made this db ?
Can anyone tell me if anything happened to the latter 2? (I couldn't watch the stage today due to finals)
Martin is still with his hand (hand right?) injuries. Cancellara just suffered the effect of marginal gains.
Plus Martin punctured. Again.
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| 9-Ball |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:28
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Goldberger wrote:
Well, the hillier stages so far have not been suited at all to TT specialist. Both La Planche des Belles Filles stage and the Porrentruy stage had short steep climbs that were designed to give them trouble. Also two small hilltop finishes in the first week could have caused them problems were it not for a few crashes. Also this TT was rolling and wasn't the worst TT for climbers.
Lets wait and see for further mountain stages, I haven`t studied the profile very much yet.
Gold,
I hear you but I certainly can't see the La Planche stage as a significantly pro-climber state - it's not a climb that would ordinarily challenge many of the most accomplished climbers or those TTers who can climb too.
As to the hilly stages in the last week - I again don't think they're realistic challenges aimed at evening the field across discipline specialists. See what you think when you look at the profile for what's coming in the next ten days and add in that final big TT (BIG) and I'll be curious to see what you think by then.
Of course, the GC should be balanced to provide the all-rounders with a reasonable chance and it'll never be perfectly balanced, I suppose. If Wiggins is only the best TT'er he should not have a realistic chance of winning (cf: Chris Boardman) but he can obviously climb to some degree too. However, if you pull out the big climbs/volume of them so that someone like a Virenque has nothing to try to balance the time off against given his TT weaknesses then it doesn't seem a fair course to me. It feels loaded for one reason or another.
I can't profess to be anti-Wiggins or anti-TTer, but I must confess at least a slight bias in favor of climbers where GTs are concerned. I loved Indurain because he could dominate in both. I see Wiggins possibly winning this tour without having to prove his real capability in one discipline and it doesn't feel right.
Then there's the doping issue but that's another thread/tome. 
It was eleven more than necessary.
Jacques Anquetil
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| 9-Ball |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:29
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9-Ball wrote:
Gold,
I hear you but I certainly can't see the La Planche stage as a significantly pro-climber state - it's not a climb that would ordinarily challenge many of the most accomplished climbers or those TTers who can climb too.
I meant to add here, but for the aggression shown in that short/sharp climb, which of course is always an X-factor and shows why so many lost a little time that day.
It was eleven more than necessary.
Jacques Anquetil
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:32
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kumazan wrote:
Martin is still with his hand (hand right?) injuries. Cancellara just suffered the effect of marginal gains.
Thanks, but what do you mean by "marginal gains?
SportingNonsense wrote:
Plus Martin punctured. Again.
Thanks SN, that guy has had some serious bad luck this year. He should go to Rabobank in the future
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:33
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Gustavovskiy wrote:
Thanks, but what do you mean by "marginal gains?
Thats Skys whole philosophy
If there is a small gain to make, make it
Skinsuits, shorter bars to reduce weight etc.
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:10
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Thats Skys whole philosophy
If there is a small gain to make, make it
Skinsuits, shorter bars to reduce weight etc.
Yeah I know, I just felt kumazan was being sarcastic. Thanks anyway.
I bet we'd have a tremendous battle for the win if Froomie and Wiggo were on separate teams. With things like they are it seems Sky will eat all the pies here. I hope someone like Evans or Nibbles opens up the race in the next stages and take the fight to Sky. I don't like their chances but they're about the only ones crazy enough to compromise their GC standings and try something risky.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:14
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Gustavovskiy wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Thats Skys whole philosophy
If there is a small gain to make, make it
Skinsuits, shorter bars to reduce weight etc.
Yeah I know, I just felt kumazan was being sarcastic. Thanks anyway.
I bet we'd have a tremendous battle for the win if Froomie and Wiggo were on separate teams. With things like they are it seems Sky will eat all the pies here. I hope someone like Evans or Nibbles opens up the race in the next stages and take the fight to Sky. I don't like their chances but they're about the only ones crazy enough to compromise their GC standings and try something risky.
i think he was too. Marginal gains of 40 seconds?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:41
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Gustavovskiy wrote:
I bet we'd have a tremendous battle for the win if Froomie and Wiggo were on separate teams. With things like they are it seems Sky will eat all the pies here. I hope someone like Evans or Nibbles opens up the race in the next stages and take the fight to Sky. I don't like their chances but they're about the only ones crazy enough to compromise their GC standings and try something risky.
If they were on different teams they wouldn't be dominating together (without going into the doping stuff; one wouldn't have the "scientific training" and "hard work" the other has).
Thanks to some links in the doping thread I ended up seeing this, hadn't seen it:
https://vimeo.com/45352846/
How stupid from Wiggins. The world doesn't revolve around him he should know.
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| pcm2009fan |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:53
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hah in fairness he pulls up and the cameraman just charges onwards 
Anyway Wiggo's funny like that, but I think you have to be british to appreciate his humour |
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:55
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
I bet we'd have a tremendous battle for the win if Froomie and Wiggo were on separate teams. With things like they are it seems Sky will eat all the pies here. I hope someone like Evans or Nibbles opens up the race in the next stages and take the fight to Sky. I don't like their chances but they're about the only ones crazy enough to compromise their GC standings and try something risky.
If they were on different teams they wouldn't be dominating together (without going into the doping stuff; one wouldn't have the "scientific training" and "hard work" the other has).
Thanks to some links in the doping thread I ended up seeing this, hadn't seen it:
https://vimeo.com/45352846/
How stupid from Wiggins. The world doesn't revolve around him he should know.
Do you want me to whack you round the head with a big camera then? |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:56
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
I bet we'd have a tremendous battle for the win if Froomie and Wiggo were on separate teams. With things like they are it seems Sky will eat all the pies here. I hope someone like Evans or Nibbles opens up the race in the next stages and take the fight to Sky. I don't like their chances but they're about the only ones crazy enough to compromise their GC standings and try something risky.
If they were on different teams they wouldn't be dominating together (without going into the doping stuff; one wouldn't have the "scientific training" and "hard work" the other has).
Thanks to some links in the doping thread I ended up seeing this, hadn't seen it:
https://vimeo.com/45352846/
How stupid from Wiggins. The world doesn't revolve around him he should know.
As far as I could see the camera man was the injured one.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:57
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I remember Juan Pablo Montoya doing the same back in 04 i think
He even punched the camera man
Not self centered just highly strung after what was another hard days racing
language may hve been a bit much i guess
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 10-07-2012 00:03
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Thanks to some links in the doping thread I ended up seeing this, hadn't seen it:
https://vimeo.com/45352846/
How stupid from Wiggins. The world doesn't revolve around him he should know.
The guy nearly walked (ran) into him with a camera. I think he is within his rights to be a tad annoyed. No matter what you think of him, he does not deserve to be hit in the face or injured.
What would you have done in that position?
Anyway, I think a Froome Wiggins battle would be good to see (provided they are clean), although I'm certain it will not. Unless something dramatic happens, the way it is going it looks like the best competition in the race may be the one for 3rd.
Nobody is normal
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 10-07-2012 00:05
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CLURPR wrote:
Do you want me to whack you round the head with a big camera then?
Yes, of course, Wiggins had not stopped, the camera man had not gone round him when he noticed he was in Wiggins' way and Wiggins was in complete danger. The camera man intentions were clearly to whack Wiggins in the head, luckily Wiggins managed to avoid it. Ffs.
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 10-07-2012 00:07
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Domestique
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lluuiiggii wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
Do you want me to whack you round the head with a big camera then?
Yes, of course, Wiggins had not stopped, the camera man had not gone round him when he noticed he was in Wiggins' way and Wiggins was in complete danger. The camera man intentions were clearly to whack Wiggins in the head, luckily Wiggins managed to avoid it. Ffs.
Wiggins had stopped because the cameraman did not even look where he was going and didn't look in Wiggins direction. If he hadn't of pulled the camera down, he would have been hit by the camera. I'm not saying he was trying to hit him with it, but if Wiggins hadn't done something, he would have been hit.
Edited by CLURPR on 10-07-2012 00:08
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 10-07-2012 00:08
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lluuiiggii wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
Do you want me to whack you round the head with a big camera then?
Yes, of course, Wiggins had not stopped, the camera man had not gone round him when he noticed he was in Wiggins' way and Wiggins was in complete danger. The camera man intentions were clearly to whack Wiggins in the head, luckily Wiggins managed to avoid it. Ffs.
Hindsight is a marvellous thing. 
Nobody is normal
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
