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Expansion Pack: Stat Discussion
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| Daggen |
Posted on 21-01-2013 18:23
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Sprinter
Posts: 1849
Joined: 08-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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That Hushovd thread made me laugh  |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 10:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I might be a bit early with this, and I might be a bit biased, but I think I'm realistic.
I think Tom(-Jelte) Slagter deserves a higher hill and sprint ability.
He showed himself last year in races like the Canadian classics, Oman & the Giro, but is beating world-class riders right now (in Australia).
I think his hill should go from 75 -> 76, and his sprint from 65 -> 68/69. He managed to hold off Gilbert and Goss for a big distance after all today...
An other option is giving him 7 potential, it looks like he got very much potential...
Another stat I want to discuss is the hill stat of Kelderman. He can keep up with the best hill riders in Australia, even though he isn't a puncher at all.
He showed a good hilly ability in for example the last Dauphiné stage(who is more hilly than mountainous) and in California.
He's now again showing it in Australia.
I'm not saying that he's one of the best on the hills, but he can do a good job I think.
I think Kelderman deserves Hill 73 -> 74/75.
Maybe Willunga hill proves me right(Doesn't mean that he has to win to prove me right, since as I said, I don't say that he's the best)
I would like to know what you guys think about it. 
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-01-2013 10:45
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 24-01-2013 10:51
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Agreed with the stats, but I think that 6 would be enough potential for Slagter. That can still make him a world class rider without becoming one of the superstars. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 10:56
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Blueprint wrote:
Agreed with the stats, but I think that 6 would be enough potential for Slagter. That can still make him a world class rider without becoming one of the superstars.
I know, although who says that he won't be a (Ardennes) superstar? 
But seriously, it's just in case the other guys don't agree with the corrections...
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-01-2013 11:35
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 24-01-2013 12:49
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Those sound plausible However I am not in favor of updating stats from the first race already such as TdU.
That'd mean updating Thomas hill stat surely as well in we are updating Slagter's ? Its just way too early and stats are based on season performance rather than just one race.
First stat update will came after Volta Catalunya. 2nd update after Ardennes ( including cobbles etc. ) 3rd update after Tour de Suiise ( including Giro etc. )
Edited by Alakagom on 24-01-2013 12:50
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 13:01
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Yeah, Thomas too indeed.
Just had a look and it's only 73. That could indeed be higher (Although the sprint stat also makes quite a big difference between Thomas & Slagter)
But I thought that you would be able to include it in the V1 or something... Will the stats be updated in the V1 anyway?
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-01-2013 13:03
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Rammus |
Posted on 24-01-2013 13:15
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Stagiare
Posts: 223
Joined: 08-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Can you review the Greipel/Cavendish flat statistics ? I know it was necessary in past editions of the game but it seems redundant now that they would still need 80. All it does is make it weird and unrealistic when cav gets to the front of the peleton in a classic or a stage.
Surely 77/76 or something like that is better ? The only time they might struggle then is if both Boonen and Cancellara started motoring on the front, and well if that happened they damn well should be struggling. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 14:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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@Rammus Not sure if the sprints will be realistic then, since guys like Goss have much more chance of winning then...
@Alak Will the V1 have the same stats as the preview?(I just downloaded the preview )
Why is Kelderman's TT set back to 75?(instead of 76). He got a Top 25 at the WC TT, and when he was riding it, it was raining, while the top TTists had a dry road...
Maybe it's because of the TTT where he got dropped? I believe he was slightly injured there... 
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-01-2013 14:06
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 24-01-2013 14:07
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh Look at it that way. If this is the only result Thomas or Slager ( veryy unlikely, this is just hypothetical) get in 2013. Do they deserve higher stats ? No they don't. Hence I am going to reserve that judgement until later in the season.
Sprinters' MO will be looked at. Most/ All WT stats were done in the preview already except one team. Hopefully if I find time Free Agents will be fixed plus Pro Conti. Whatever doesn't come in the V1 I will release stats updates through the season here
About Kelderman, as CT once said, I don't want to give very high stats to high potential riders as they will become amazing riders in 1 year already. And as well Kelderman had only one really good TT this yea, meanwhile he was okay in others. 75 seems fair overall judging that.
Rammus Tbh that happens from time to time. At Tour, Cav worked quite a lot for Wiggins on few stages. Greipel on other hand was doing similar for Lotto on cobbles last year. Other sprinters have also high flat stats, mostly so reducing their stat would mean we'd have to reduce all other sprinters as well. And I don't think that's game breaking. I'll look into though
Edited by Alakagom on 24-01-2013 14:11
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 14:10
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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@Alak Okay, that's true(Thomas + Slagter), but I assume you use 2012 achievements too, which they both had. If we look at it the same hypotheticial way, Gerrans wouldn't get a HI stat of 78, since he didn't achieve anything this year
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 24-01-2013 14:11
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
@Alak Okay, that's true(Thomas + Slagter), but I assume you use 2012 achievements too, which they both had. If we look at it the same hypotheticial way, Gerrans wouldn't get a HI stat of 78, since he didn't achieve anything this year
That's the prime factor mate, and in 2012 Slagter deserves 75 His sprint will go up slightly indeed, I'll wait with his hill stat until later in the season
Edited by Alakagom on 24-01-2013 14:13
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 00:34
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Bot Agent
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 14:12
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Okay, you win...
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 24-01-2013 16:49
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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About Kelderman's TT, really, you're whining about 1 TT point? First, consider that there are only 31 riders who are better than him in TT in the DB. Considering that not everybody will have the same form, that's more than plausible for a 25th place at the Worlds. If you look at the TT stats of the riders who finished after him in the WCITT, you'll notice nearly all of them have a lower TT stat. Secondly, I'm amazed at how you're arguing with his Worlds TT result instead of the Dauphine one But then again, that was pretty much his only great TT result last year, and another stat making rule says you shouldn't give results to riders based on one day of competition
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 17:01
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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@Luigi No, but I thought the only thing that could have caused his -1TT point could've been the worlds, since the Dauphiné did end before the last DB was out That's why I didn't mention Dauphiné...
And I wasn't whining about 1 TT point, I thought, while we're discussing the Blanco youngsters, why not mention this
I did also look at guys in front of him, and I think he isn't less good as guys like Castroviejo... (And don't forget, if he's 76TT he still has things like FL stat in his disadvantage )
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 24-01-2013 17:09
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
I did also look at guys in front of him, and I think he isn't less good as guys like Castroviejo... (And don't forget, if he's 76TT he still has things like FL stat in his disadvantage )
You mean the same Castroviejo who was 9th in the Olympic TT and scored 142 points on ITTs alone in CQ Ranking last year? (for reference, Wilco scored 35)
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 17:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
I did also look at guys in front of him, and I think he isn't less good as guys like Castroviejo... (And don't forget, if he's 76TT he still has things like FL stat in his disadvantage )
You mean the same Castroviejo who was 9th in the Olympic TT and scored 142 points on ITTs alone in CQ Ranking last year? (for reference, Wilco scored 35)
As said, Castroviejo still got better back-up stats than Wilco in PCM, so if Wilco would get 76TT, Jonathan would still be better.
And I might make a mistake here, but Castroviejo did get most of his points in prologues and TTT's I believe.
+ Quite a few guys(Not talking about the Martins and Wiggins, but more of guys of Jonathan's level) weren't peaking at the Olympics I think, and I guess Castroviejo did. (I don't know that much about Jonathan's season, only got CQ ranking info  )
But right, I'm now definitely whining about 1TT point
Just found this:
Alakagom wrote in News in January:
Volta ao Algarve 2013
Stage 1, Faro - Albufeira, 199 km
Stage 2, Lagoa - Lagoa, 195 km
Stage 3, Portimão - Alto do Malhão (Loulé), 193 km
Stage 4, Castro Marim - Tavira (ITT), 34,8 km
Bit too long TT imo with only just Malhão.
Next race on Wilco's calendar:
Volta ao Algarve.
Time to prove himself!
Another edit:
Just found a better example, Millar. He's 77TT, but he didn't do that great things on his TT bike last year
(sorry, really want to prove my point )
Oh, and as I said earlier today, I´m defenitely a bit biased, but I don´t think I´m saying (too many) unrealistic things
Edited by Jesleyh on 24-01-2013 17:38
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 24-01-2013 17:50
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Time trial is the dominant stat on time trials in the game. Flat plays a smaller role, just like does stamina and resistance (which btw Kelderman's is higher). I actually excluded TTT's from the sum up, so that's only ITTs. Yeah, there was also a prologue and a couple of small ITTs, but he placed 2nd in the Spanish Nationals, which is far from a prologue. Lastly I don't think the secondary stats where Castroviejo has an advantage at (basically 7 points of flat, since stamina and resistance rule out each other) make up for the fact he scored 4 times more ITT CQ points than what Kelderman did in 2012
Millar was 7th and 2nd in WC ITT 2011 and 2010. Even if he's declining, 77 ITT makes sense. Though it could be lowered, it's a bit of a mistake for stat makers to leave good stats for riders who haven't performed well in a while believing they'll come back to their former level. But then again, he had a broken collarbone last year, which doesn't really help his preparation. Ah, I'll just leave that to Alakagom to decide, whether Millar currently deserves 77 TT. He is the stat maker after all
Edited by lluuiiggii on 24-01-2013 17:51
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 24-01-2013 17:51
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Okay, it's fine, didn't know about the collarbone anyway
We let Kelderman prove himself in Algarve
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 24-01-2013 17:53
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Jesleyh wrote:
We let Kelderman prove himself in Algarve
That's a better idea then
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| Blueprint |
Posted on 24-01-2013 18:59
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Domestique
Posts: 437
Joined: 29-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Let's just wait impatiently and see what the stats will be like. After all, they're very easy to change if you don't like them... |
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