Well you can discuss it from now on until the end of the world without agreeing.
In the end it comes down to what ones expectations are to the game.. If one set the bar high one could very easily get disappointed and the other way around !
Yes, surely there are good things. But imo there are quite a big number of bugs, and not too many improvements:
- There is realistic gameplay + realistic results
Same as PCM11; reviews so far are too opposite to call if the gameplay is better or worse than that, and not enough time yet to see that
- Many New Teams + More Licenses
The Official DB still has 2 less teams than the PCMDaily DB, f.e., and other DBs probably have about the same number/more teams. As for licenses, I don't find it that much important when the DBs correct all fake names, pictures, etc (although for the console game that is surely important)
- In Game Season Planner
Lachi has released a season planner for PCM for 3 games now, so, as he once wrote in a post, rather than "great new feature" we should call it "about time".
- 3 Divisions instead of 2
Probably the most interesting feature for those looking for career gameplay Unfortunately, the goals didn't seem to be rightly adjusted to it, as some people have said (let's hope they fix it in another patch)
- Ability to use more than 2gb of RAM, especially useful for those long stages
Finally something really useful which does not come with bugs
- Armada Mode (although I'm not too wild about it anymore)
Good feature.. for Cyanide, who'll take some more money, and for some people. It replaced the old online mode (major thumbs down for that), and it's still quite buggy (not possible to trade cards, main tactic apparently is team attack), and the bugs that will probably be fixed with patches (I really think they will, because imo this is the main feature of the game for Cyanide).
- New Interface as well as stage profiles
Some like it, some dislike it. I guess it's a matter of getting used to it, then there'll be no dislikes (except for some stuff like menus not staying opened, but you can go through that with hotkeys). But then again, the old interface wasn't bad, it isn't something that was really needed
Then, there are some good things, like possibility to add variants in the middle of the career and the new race rules, and some other bad things, e.g. still not possible to renew sponsors (patch) and new way to add stages which imo might give some weird time gaps, stage reliefs (mountain, hill etc). All in all, imho, there are too few good features and too many bugs for 1 year of development for a game. I agree though that some people are looking at it too negatively, but I guess that's because the very first reactions of the game weren't good at all.
Definetely no. The gameplay of Pro Cycling Manager 2011 is way better than 2012 - the new interface isn't good and especially the little map makes it almost impossible fx. to pinpoint high and low gradients.
Furthermore, in in-game i can't protect my riders and be able to see stats. I don't know if it's just me, but i really can't figure it out.
lluuiiggii wrote:
Yes, surely there are good things. But imo there are quite a big number of bugs, and not too many improvements:
- There is realistic gameplay + realistic results
Same as PCM11; reviews so far are too opposite to call if the gameplay is better or worse than that, and not enough time yet to see that
- Many New Teams + More Licenses
The Official DB still has 2 less teams than the PCMDaily DB, f.e., and other DBs probably have about the same number/more teams. As for licenses, I don't find it that much important when the DBs correct all fake names, pictures, etc (although for the console game that is surely important)
- In Game Season Planner
Lachi has released a season planner for PCM for 3 games now, so, as he once wrote in a post, rather than "great new feature" we should call it "about time".
- 3 Divisions instead of 2
Probably the most interesting feature for those looking for career gameplay Unfortunately, the goals didn't seem to be rightly adjusted to it, as some people have said (let's hope they fix it in another patch)
- Ability to use more than 2gb of RAM, especially useful for those long stages
Finally something really useful which does not come with bugs
- Armada Mode (although I'm not too wild about it anymore)
Good feature.. for Cyanide, who'll take some more money, and for some people. It replaced the old online mode (major thumbs down for that), and it's still quite buggy (not possible to trade cards, main tactic apparently is team attack), and the bugs that will probably be fixed with patches (I really think they will, because imo this is the main feature of the game for Cyanide).
- New Interface as well as stage profiles
Some like it, some dislike it. I guess it's a matter of getting used to it, then there'll be no dislikes (except for some stuff like menus not staying opened, but you can go through that with hotkeys). But then again, the old interface wasn't bad, it isn't something that was really needed
Then, there are some good things, like possibility to add variants in the middle of the career and the new race rules, and some other bad things, e.g. still not possible to renew sponsors (patch) and new way to add stages which imo might give some weird time gaps, stage reliefs (mountain, hill etc). All in all, imho, there are too few good features and too many bugs for 1 year of development for a game. I agree though that some people are looking at it too negatively, but I guess that's because the very first reactions of the game weren't good at all.
In armada mode also, it is possible to get more than one rider card in your team. e.g. two Valverde's. That defeats the object and needs to be stopped. Teams will become too strong and eventually armada will become boring.
Riis123 wrote:
Definetely no. The gameplay of Pro Cycling Manager 2011 is way better than 2012 - the new interface isn't good and especially the little map makes it almost impossible fx. to pinpoint high and low gradients.
Furthermore, in in-game i can't protect my riders and be able to see stats. I don't know if it's just me, but i really can't figure it out.
Have you even played PCM 11? Specifically how is it better? Does not attacking make the gameplay better. How about 50 riders coming into the Velodrome on Roubaix? In PCM 12 all of that is fixed.
And to protect rider:
1: LEft Click rider who will be protecting on the team bar
2: Right click rider you want to protect
3: a little action panel will pop up
4: click the shield/protect icon
And to see stats, its on the bottom right like normal.
Riis123 wrote:
Definetely no. The gameplay of Pro Cycling Manager 2011 is way better than 2012 - the new interface isn't good and especially the little map makes it almost impossible fx. to pinpoint high and low gradients.
Furthermore, in in-game i can't protect my riders and be able to see stats. I don't know if it's just me, but i really can't figure it out.
Have you even played PCM 11? Specifically how is it better? Does not attacking make the gameplay better. How about 50 riders coming into the Velodrome on Roubaix? In PCM 12 all of that is fixed.
And to protect rider:
1: LEft Click rider who will be protecting on the team bar
2: Right click rider you want to protect
3: a little action panel will pop up
4: click the shield/protect icon
And to see stats, its on the bottom right like normal.
I like the mountain stages better in PCM 2011 which is all, pretty much, i care about when playing stages. Yesyerday i played the stage to La Touissuire and 110 riders were able to follow the pace of the peloton over Croix de Fer - 90 riders in the bottom of La Touissuire, the final climb of the day. I just picked a silly team and tried to influence the game the least that i could and let the AI do the pacemaking...
There you have it. I'll try to give it a last chance tonight, but the fact that Cyanide hasn't considered that there is a difference between riding in a peloton at 0% and 7% (the advantage of wheelsucking on mountains is ridicously high opposed to reality) the game i pretty much unplayable for me.
Edited by Riis123 on 23-06-2012 19:00
Riis123 wrote:
Definetely no. The gameplay of Pro Cycling Manager 2011 is way better than 2012 - the new interface isn't good and especially the little map makes it almost impossible fx. to pinpoint high and low gradients.
Furthermore, in in-game i can't protect my riders and be able to see stats. I don't know if it's just me, but i really can't figure it out.
Have you even played PCM 11? Specifically how is it better? Does not attacking make the gameplay better. How about 50 riders coming into the Velodrome on Roubaix? In PCM 12 all of that is fixed.
And to protect rider:
1: LEft Click rider who will be protecting on the team bar
2: Right click rider you want to protect
3: a little action panel will pop up
4: click the shield/protect icon
And to see stats, its on the bottom right like normal.
I like the mountain stages better in PCM 2011 which is all, pretty much, i care about when playing stages. Yesyerday i played the stage to La Touissuire and 110 riders were able to follow the pace of the peloton over Croix de Fer - 90 riders in the bottom of La Touissuire, the final climb of the day. I just picked a silly team and tried to influence the game the least that i could and let the AI do the pacemaking...
There you have it. I'll try to give it a last chance tonight, but the fact that Cyanide hasn't considered that there is a difference between riding in a peloton at 0% and 7% (the advantage of wheelsucking on mountains is ridicously high opposed to reality) the game i pretty much unplayable for me.
Was that in Stage Race or Career Mode? I noticed the same things yesterday, but in single stage its all fine, until this mornings patch, where it is all good in all modes now.
It was because all riders had same stats. Whoever was leader of each team would win do best, all teammates could blast up climbs and set a huge pace.
Edited by valverde321 on 23-06-2012 19:22
It could also have to do with the fact that Cyanide said in one of the interviews they were going to lower the difference between riders but make the team mates drop off the pace earlier in some stages as to conserve energy. Honestly I didn't like it at all, while it may be near the same for stage races it would mess up the classics, where nobody needs to save energy for a new day.
How about 50 riders coming into the Velodrome on Roubaix?
Ok, here I really disagree. PCM11 was/is not that good when it comes to cobbled classics, but the biggest group I've ever seen in the velodrome was 8 riders. Normally, though, it would be either a solo rider or a 3~5 riders group (when there are >2 riders alone in the front, they're stupid and don't relay, easing up and letting some others reach them until someone has the brilliant idea of pulling the pace at the front). 50 riders in the velodrome is more something like PCM10 (22 riders made the biggest group that entered the finish of PR with me playing - and I didn't play PR many times in PCM10).
However, if you say that the cobble classics gameplay is better, then that's something good, because they're among my favorite races to play (and they indeed finish too many times in small group sprints in PCM11, mainly because of the AI not relaying problem - unless you're Cancellara and apply his real life tactics ).
lluuiiggii wrote:
It could also have to do with the fact that Cyanide said in one of the interviews they were going to lower the difference between riders but make the team mates drop off the pace earlier in some stages as to conserve energy. Honestly I didn't like it at all, while it may be near the same for stage races it would mess up the classics, where nobody needs to save energy for a new day.
How about 50 riders coming into the Velodrome on Roubaix?
Ok, here I really disagree. PCM11 was/is not that good when it comes to cobbled classics, but the biggest group I've ever seen in the velodrome was 8 riders. Normally, though, it would be either a solo rider or a 3~5 riders group (when there are >2 riders alone in the front, they're stupid and don't relay, easing up and letting some others reach them until someone has the brilliant idea of pulling the pace at the front). 50 riders in the velodrome is more something like PCM10 (22 riders made the biggest group that entered the finish of PR with me playing - and I didn't play PR many times in PCM10).
However, if you say that the cobble classics gameplay is better, then that's something good, because they're among my favorite races to play (and they indeed finish too many times in small group sprints in PCM11, mainly because of the AI not relaying problem - unless you're Cancellara and apply his real life tactics ).
+1 Don't know where the 50 rider Roubaix thing came from. My highest was 9, and that's just becasue of the time gaps system.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Valverde you are speaking like the member of the Cyanide staff, talking about not so important improvements and forgetting to tell about the stupid bugs.
And for example you like the interface, but i will not probably see a shite without me sitting 10 centimetres infront of my TV (yeah i play on TV instead of display). I sill wait for the game ,but i am confused with some people saying great and some showing that there is handful of bugs and non-improvement of well-known problems (sponsor goals, not renewing...).
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 25-06-2012 07:04
I didn't have any problems with mountain stages. If someone starts setting a fast pace, I end up with groups of 20-30, which is pretty realistic.
Though about the dropping down and the classics, to which Lluuiiggii was referring, isn't that more about the sprinters and weak climbers/punchers? In a hilly classic, you're not likely to bring a pure sprinter, so I don't think that should be a problem. + if you put them near the front of the peloton they won't drop down that fast. I don't know for sure but I think it'll apply more to sprinters in GTs
I dont think I can ever go back to PCM 11, unless a major Career Mode bug is found.
And I dont think the game has gone backwards in any areas, other than removing online.
Thats that. I just have this assumption that people like to knock the game, for whatever reason. I dont expect a lot, only minor improvements and I think I've been pleasantly surprised.
Like I said, there are still a few bugs to work out, and some things that they didn't do, but should have. But if you compare PCM 12 to PCM 11 its a better game. I think people have been frustrated by Armada Mode being the main feature, forgot to look at the positives (although, Luigi, your points are very good and I agree with them)
