|
News in June
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:12
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Vien wrote:
The thing that bothers me right now... Just say this is true. That means you can't trust Bruyneel anymore.
Uhh....do you know why he's called "The Hog"?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| Vien |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:14
|
Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2322
Joined: 16-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
Vien wrote:
The thing that bothers me right now... Just say this is true. That means you can't trust Bruyneel anymore.
Uhh....do you know why he's called "The Hog"?
I know  But as far as I know, there haven't been any claims against his riders for several years.
|
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:16
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Nah, his improvement was due to a bollock's worth weight loss. Don't be so cynical. Don't be so logical.
|
| |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:18
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Nah, his improvement was due to a bollock's worth weight loss. Don't be so cynical. Don't be so logical.
Re-read my post at the end of the last page. I clearly explain that it made him more aerodynamic
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:25
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Nah, his improvement was due to a bollock's worth weight loss. Don't be so cynical. Don't be so logical.
Re-read my post at the end of the last page. I clearly explain that it made him more aerodynamic
Re-read?!? I'm not gonna more than skim-read anything that fucking long
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:27
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
I don't have the same figures as you (and we have the same source I reckon) for TDF 2001 :
https://www.cyclis...p?sid=5543
Riders still way above 410 W (not mentioning 380 W).
And... it could be beaten on one single climb, given you had an aerodynamic single ball (that one made my day, thank you). The 410 W threshold applies to the average power output measured on final climbs of long stages.
Technically, Riis' master performance at Hautacam 1996 cannot be considered Spoiler (as a tribute I used my 53 ring for a hundred metres when I climbed Hautacam myself in 2007 :lol 
About his 1999 haematocrit rate,there'd be another explanation (of course that doesn't work) : he was "just" coming back to pro sport, or the level was so low that he didn't slaughter his red cells all during the Tour de France. But as he got stronger opponents the next years, he had to dig inside himself more, which reduced his haematocrit rate (long and intensive efforts destroy huge amounts of red cells, if anyone hadn't figured it out). |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:31
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
You know, you think Lance fans are extreme, but this as just as extreme too.
You wanna be scientifical? I will too.
Since Lance could take in more oxygen than anyone else, he didn't need as much effort because he naturally has more energy than other people. Oxygen gives your body energy through cellular respiration, since he could take in more air, he had an easier ride. That would also explain heart rate, as your heart pumps the red blood cells around, which carry the oxygen.
Your as much of a hater as I am a fan, so this isn't really a productive arguement.
And for the record, if I felt like it, I could make almost as many arguements for my side.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:35
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Then do. It means fuck all to say you could. It also doesn't address really any of the points Aquarius and issoisso made (have read that now  ).
|
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:36
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
baseballlover312 wrote:
You know, you think Lance fans are extreme, but this as just as extreme too.
You wanna be scientifical? I will too.
Since Lance could take in more oxygen than anyone else
Evidence please
And for the record, if I felt like it, I could make almost as many arguements for my side.
Go for it, Lance arguments are fun. 
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:37
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Then do. It means fuck all to say you could. It also doesn't address really any of the points Aquarius and issoisso made (have read that now ).
How come what I say means ****, but what they say doesn't?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:40
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
I've gotten myself into another USAPCC type arguement, so I'm done. You wanna pm e and call me a wimp, I don't care! Goodbye.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 03:52
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| issoisso |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:42
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
baseballlover312 wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Then do. It means fuck all to say you could. It also doesn't address really any of the points Aquarius and issoisso made (have read that now ).
How come what I say means ****, but what they say doesn't?
We quoted facts. You made claims with no sources to back them up or even quoting any values.
But even then your oxygen "argument" is ridiculously easy to disprove:
Greg LeMond had the highest VO2Max ever recorded for a cyclist and the 390W max climbing power pre-EPO was by him. Yet by your logic, if oxygen explains everything he should be doing over 500W
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
|
| |
|
|
| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:46
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
issoisso wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Then do. It means fuck all to say you could. It also doesn't address really any of the points Aquarius and issoisso made (have read that now ).
How come what I say means ****, but what they say doesn't?
We quoted facts. You made claims with no sources to back them up or even quoting any values.
But even then your oxygen "argument" is ridiculously easy to disprove:
Greg LeMond had the highest VO2Max ever recorded for a cyclist and the 390W max climbing power pre-EPO was by him. Yet by your logic, if oxygen explains everything he should be doing over 500W
Partly that, partly the fact that you said that, if you could be bothered, you could come up with just as many arguments supporting. It's one thing not to back up an argument with evidence, it's plain lazy not to make one at all.
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:50
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Problem is there are no serious or reliable source to claim Armstrong would have the highest oxygen consumption. It's just claims. Story-telling of his legend, or whatever one could call that.
Even if that was true at one point, when was that ? It's a parameter that can be heavily influenced by EPO (it is WHAT EPO is used for).
So, even if that was true, that doesn't prove that he didn't dope, or that he doped. Actually, that'd rather suggest he used dope... |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 22:55
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
Aquarius wrote:
Problem is there are no serious or reliable source to claim Armstrong would have the highest oxygen consumption. It's just claims. Story-telling of his legend, or whatever one could call that.
Even if that was true at one point, when was that ? It's a parameter that can be heavily influenced by EPO (it is WHAT EPO is used for).
So, even if that was true, that doesn't prove that he didn't dope, or that he doped. Actually, that'd rather suggest he used dope...
Are you suggesting that Lance doped as a young teen?
Exactly what all these are!
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 13-06-2012 23:03
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
"Lance could take in more oxygen than anyone else"
I'm questioning what this is supposed to mean, what it implies, etc. |
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 23:03
|
World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
Baseball, no one is attacking you personally, they are calling your claims false basically, (because you are dodging around the truth and making claims on little to no facts yourself) but you are taking it personally. 
If you have facts, people wouldn't be attacking you're word, they would be attacking facts. But as it stands now, they are attacking your words, because you have a lack of sources, to back up any of your claims.
Edited by valverde321 on 13-06-2012 23:05
|
| |
|
|
| Montolivo |
Posted on 13-06-2012 23:10
|
Protected Rider
Posts: 1032
Joined: 16-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
As we are talking about watts do anybody know how much watt the best in the gc did in this years Giro? (Hesjedal, Rodriguez, Scarponi) |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 23:20
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
ehhh hemm. So did anyone hear that Schleck won't be at the tour?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 13-06-2012 23:22
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5759
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Baseball,
sorry we are being mean. Almost everyone from English speaking backgrounds becomes a pro cycling fan with Lance as the person who got them interested in the sport. And over time they are generally shown so much circumstantial evidence that Lance doped, that they accept it and move on. As such, these debates come along every 6 months or so, and hence the people here are quick to jump on it.
Honestly, probably the best idea is to accept that he doped, as did almost every other cyclist of the last 20 years. There is real evidence things are getting cleaner currently, but I don't think that things will ever get 100% clean. So enjoy Lance's feats, because he was no worse than anyone else, and as such his results are still amazing, but, at least with cycling fans on the internet, the more you argue Lance is clean, the less people will like you.
If you still want to believe, then go ahead, but I would avoid being confrontational, because plenty of people know the arguments better than you do. And just know at the back of your mind that one day he might get caught, so don't bet everything on him being clean.
Sorry if this is condescending, I'm trying to be nice, and I have no reason to not like you currently.
mb
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
