Montolivo wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Voeckler from 2011 onwards are on something. Wasn't there a new drug that was illegal before to take that is now legal in France? I think i heard it from you Aquarius
Corticoids. But not just in France, worldwide.
It's not legal now, it's just that you don't need an AUT to take them, which is basically the same as if they were legal. Just don't get caught with them.
Plus Europcar in particular are or have been suspected of doing injections (of legal stuff, supposedly) to fasten their recuperation. Such injections are illegal, of course.
Montolivo wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Voeckler from 2011 onwards are on something. Wasn't there a new drug that was illegal before to take that is now legal in France? I think i heard it from you Aquarius
Corticoids. But not just in France, worldwide.
It's not legal now, it's just that you don't need an AUT to take them, which is basically the same as if they were legal. Just don't get caught with them.
Plus Europcar in particular are or have been suspected of doing injections (of legal stuff, supposedly) to fasten their recuperation. Such injections are illegal, of course.
Thanks for the answer. Was a bit confused about whetever it was a new drug or not.
It's Schleck who is right, the poison still works
Fränk Schleck, the excluded doper, is right : le Tour is "poisoned". It has been for a long time, but the poison still works. To get convinced, comparing the power outputs of riders, in Watts, is enough. We noticed four of them that are particularly shocking this year. The first one kills more than it wounds. It's about the crowds' pet, Thomas Voeckler, who, as his clone, the Virenque of the greatest Festina years, holds the king of mountains polka dots jersey up, and the French hearts. Saint Thomas, in his own admittance, neglecting the will of his almost fleshless calves that seem so thin that they look like they're reduced to (the size of) his shin bones, is capable, like Richard once was, to perform mountain raids, maintaining over four mountains an engine power of "375-390" Watts, without weakening, accelerating whenever he wishes. He was first to cross the line atop Aubisque, Tourmalet, Aspin, Peyresourde, in 5 h 32 min 2 s, victorious concluding, fresh as a daisy, the 197 km at an average of 35,59 km/h.
With an average of 430 W, the favourites swallowed, like during the great days, Peyresourde in 26 min 45 sec. From Saint-Aventin, they only conceded 34 seconds to the unreal time of Contador and Rasmussen in 2007 (23 minutes and 26 seconds), who were trying to drop each other with many sprints, just like as many injections. From there on, Froome and Wiggins then accelerated in the last climb, Peyragudes. They produced 470 Watts during 7'03" (2,95 km at 7,93 %). Froome waited for Wiggins, but was capable of getting near 500 Watts. If he doesn't restrict his engine any more to wait for his leader, he could enter the caste of world record owners, the best "performers" of all times : Pantani, Armstrong, Contador.
The third comparison, which makes smile more than it surprises, is to be credited to a suspended rider "Stronger Than Before", title of a book by Virenque. Alejandro Valverde won in Peyragudes, achieving a performance equal to Vinokourov's in 2007. The two riders, with a 5 years interval, climbed the Port de Balès and Peyresourde at the same level of power output, managing 285 then 405 Watts on both these ascents. Vinokourov, who had left the peloton with the morning break, won it solo in Loudenvielle. The Kazakhi was then excluded because of a blood transfusion.
The last comparison is more thrilling than bluffing. In 2011, after 16 years of scrambling for heavy doping products, we were at last cheering, in these columns, for the absence of riders performing above an average of 410 Watts on the last ascents of mountain stages : the detection threshold of poison. Alas ! There is again four of them, this year who crossed that bar : Wiggins, Froome, Nibali and Van den Broecke, with 415 Watts for the first three of the classification, and 410 Watts for the fourth one. We are now longing for 2013 and the return of Contador and his tainted meat ! Until then, it's doubtful a cure will have been found.
Former coach of Team Festina, Antoine Vayer is a performance specialist.
Antoine Vayer
***
The Virenque stuff about Voeckler is made of puns that make fun of Virenque's defence when he was trying to prove he didn't dope.
About Massi : it must be said that it was raining that day, I remember very well watching the stage.
I don't understand the 34 seconds on Contador and Ramussen either, 23'26" + 34" = 24'00", not 26'45" ?!
OMH, Virenque wrote a book ? I didn't know. My eyes have just started bleeding at the mere thought that some people might have read it.
Aquarius wrote:
OMH, Virenque wrote a book ? I didn't know. My eyes have just started bleeding at the mere thought that some people might have read it.
Obviously he didn't actually write it. He did what Wiggins did with that "I don't dope" article a week or so ago: Pay a professional to write it. It's what they all do.
They're cyclists, not writers.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I dislike the use of Watts rather than Watts/kg. Also Wiggins and Rogers said they were climbing at around 450 Watts, so either they were lying or his numbers are calculated differently.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182]Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
mb2612 wrote:
I dislike the use of Watts rather than Watts/kg. Also Wiggins and Rogers said they were climbing at around 450 Watts, so either they were lying or his numbers are calculated differently.
They don't weight 70 kg, whereas Portoleau and Vayer's Watts are for a 70+8 kg model.
W/kg is a little different, and doesn't really allow comparisons between riders with very different weights. If I'm not mistaking, the less muscle, the most efficient the kg of muscles you've kept. And it allows climbers to naturally perform better (in W/kg) than sprinters on the steepest slopes.
mb2612 wrote:
I dislike the use of Watts rather than Watts/kg. Also Wiggins and Rogers said they were climbing at around 450 Watts, so either they were lying or his numbers are calculated differently.
They don't weight 70 kg, whereas Portoleau and Vayer's Watts are for a 70+8 kg model.
W/kg is a little different, and doesn't really allow comparisons between riders with very different weights. If I'm not mistaking, the less muscle, the most efficient the kg of muscles you've kept. And it allows climbers to naturally perform better (in W/kg) than sprinters on the steepest slopes.
Huh, I always though that W/kg is a better cross comparison, but I guess if they are normalising everyone's weight then they are essentially using W/kg anyway.
Thanks for translating the article.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182]Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Yet the stuff about the watt numbers is pretty interesting. Its like Millar said way back when he returned with Saunier Duval: They all hide corpses in their basements...
This has probably been mentioned 10000 times before but I just heard it for the first time: A Dutch program just said Gilbert got warned by the UCI after last season because of (too) fast-changing blood values.
One of Ibarguren's riders warned for suspicious blood values? No way!
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Aquarius wrote:
No idea if it's mentioned before not how often, but I don't think I've ever read it here.
Not that much of a surprise anyway, is it ?
Well, at least to me, his performances look kind of believable. He is just built as an ironman. Has progressed steadily. Looked already strong in early career but many times wasted energy on stupid attacks and also didn't knew what his main specialization will be. Also has reached his peak around age 30, partly due to fact that has become a smarter rider.
Wilier wrote:
Then how do you explain Gilbert owning everyone last season and being rubbish this season?
First of all, it's not like I'm truly into his performances. I just said that "it is more believable".
But to the point, Gilbert this season just looks lighter (don't know the actual measurements, just the "eye test". His is not as muscular. And to me Ardennes-Northern classics type of riders benefit from being more muscular. For example Cunego is a great Ardennes typre of cyclist. Look at him in Giro 2004 when his strength was climbing and look at him like 2 years ago. Compare the size of thighs.
And also it's human not to be able to show that kind of performance 2 years in a row.
Edited by I_Mayo on 23-07-2012 22:46
Montolivo wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Voeckler from 2011 onwards are on something. Wasn't there a new drug that was illegal before to take that is now legal in France? I think i heard it from you Aquarius
Corticoids. But not just in France, worldwide.
It's not legal now, it's just that you don't need an AUT to take them, which is basically the same as if they were legal. Just don't get caught with them.
Plus Europcar in particular are or have been suspected of doing injections (of legal stuff, supposedly) to fasten their recuperation. Such injections are illegal, of course.
Hope you don't mind me asking, but what is a 'AUT'
