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What is your religion?
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 17-01-2013 09:43
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I believe in love and death 
It's an odd question here but a valid one. I think religion is taking a big downfall, and that's partly because of the information overload on the internet. In ye old days, people got raised, high on God, poor chums never had a chance. 
Everyone has their own opinion nowadays. Categorizing is in the past, for me. You could say: I'm a Christian, but what does that mean? Everyone had their own beliefs and values  |
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| MrDemus |
Posted on 17-01-2013 09:44
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I said atheism.
I was not brought up in a religious family, and although I am quite interested in the subject of religion, I don't follow one myself. People are free to believe whatever they want though.
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| Neillster |
Posted on 17-01-2013 10:33
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Domestique
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Really interested to read through this thread.
I myself am a Christian, and believe in the God who created all that we see around purely by speaking. Belief that there is a God isn't what makes me a Christian though...
'You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!' (James 2:19)
What makes me a Christian is faith that God's son, Jesus Christ came down to this world, to live to perfect life which I never could, and die the death He did on the cross to pay the debt for all the sins which I had committed.
This, Ian, is the love and death which I believe in. A love so great that the perfect Son of God died in my place. |
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| Bjartne |
Posted on 17-01-2013 11:28
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I'm also a Christian, raised in an atheisthic home, but as a child I soon realized that there got to be something more. At least I hoped so. At the age of 16 I found the true meaning of my life and I started believing the fact that Jesus had paid for my sins so that I could get eternal life, even though I don't really deserve it. Just trough His grace. Since then, I have growned alot in faith, and this summer I graduated from university with a Bachelor degree in Theology and are looking forward to what lays in front of me |
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| Daggen |
Posted on 17-01-2013 11:30
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I believe in pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 17-01-2013 11:50
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Lachi wrote:
Why should I believe anything which I cannot prove.
Because that's the concept of belief.
If something is proven there's nothing to believe or not believe. Believing implies not knowing. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 17-01-2013 12:20
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I voted Atheism, but Non-religious would probably be the best term as there seems to be a lot of "Religious atheists" out there at the moment.
I believe in a changing world with a lot of mysteries. The ones we cannot explain today are not inexplicable - we just haven't gone that far yet.
In my opinion religion and political ideologies have the same core: A system of belief set to explain how the world is, what is should be like and what you can do to make it more so. Main difference is that religions are much older and have better stories to explain their ideas. I don't think it is fair that a system of belief gets a special untouchable place in society just because it's very old.
I used to be Christian, but then I read large parts of the bible and realized that especially the old testament has large passages that directly conflict with my view of the world. Especially when Moses brought the Jews back to Israel and God helped them to slaughter the people living there only because they had made a life for themselves in an uninhabited spot was a major dealbreaker for me.
When looking at the course of history religion has in my opinion done more bad than good, be it religious based wars (incl. civil wars), prosecutions of scientists, burning of libraries in places with more knowledge than us or "just" the oppression of the small man making him give what little he has for kings/bishops/popes etc. can live grandiose lives while they prohibit dancing, movies and generally having a good time.
2000+ year old texts is not the best way to explain how to behave in our modern world. We have to think for ourselves and we have to be open to the fact that the world is changing and that sometimes things will be discovered that shows us that our old views were wrong.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 17-01-2013 12:39
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fcancellara wrote:
Oh, I myself am Christian, but certainly not a good example:
- Last time I visited a church was over a year ago
- I never voluntarily read the Bible (only at primary school, which was a Christian one)
- I don't think the Bible's stories (especially in the Old Testament) are facts; rather methaphors.
- I do believe in evolution, which is in contradiction to the Bible. Also the big bang theory seems credible to me.
But the point is; everything must have started somewhere, for me that is God.
Exactly. Some things in the Bible are true, but it is absurd to think that most of them were. I am a Christian as I'm sure everyone here knows. And I do believe in evolution. Perhaps the Bible meant that these "days" God "built" the earth in were sort of eras of evolution. I don't know about the big bang, but it definetly is more possible than creationism.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 17-01-2013 12:56
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World Champion
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I just believe in my own things
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| Neillster |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:01
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Domestique
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I don't know about the big bang, but it definetly is more possible than creationism.
How is a big bang from nowhere more plausible than a supreme, omnipotent being creating everything? |
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| Neillster |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:13
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Domestique
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Atlantius wrote:
I used to be Christian, but then I read large parts of the bible and realized that especially the old testament has large passages that directly conflict with my view of the world. Especially when Moses brought the Jews back to Israel and God helped them to slaughter the people living there only because they had made a life for themselves in an uninhabited spot was a major dealbreaker for me.
When looking at the course of history religion has in my opinion done more bad than good, be it religious based wars (incl. civil wars), prosecutions of scientists, burning of libraries in places with more knowledge than us or "just" the oppression of the small man making him give what little he has for kings/bishops/popes etc. can live grandiose lives while they prohibit dancing, movies and generally having a good time.
2000+ year old texts is not the best way to explain how to behave in our modern world. We have to think for ourselves and we have to be open to the fact that the world is changing and that sometimes things will be discovered that shows us that our old views were wrong.
Just to clear up, Moses and the people of Israel didn't kill the Canaanites because they were just there... but as a punishment for the sins which they had committed. Really, the same should happen to all of us for the sins we have committed against God, but God has shown mercy and grace to us by even allowing us to live.
As to looking back in history, even since the 'enlightenment' of man and the decline of the Christian religion, wars haven't ceased. Indeed the most brutal people of the last century, the Nazis had their ideology based on social Darwinism. And yes, whilst there was large scale exploitation of the poor under the Roman Catholic system, I would not call that system Christian.
As to your final point, I couldn't agree more that we need to think over these things ourselves, yet I feel that these '2000+ year old texts' still perfectly describe the nature of man, the state of the world and how we can truly find fulfillment - in Jesus Christ. |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:14
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People believe what they choose to believe. Either because they want something to be true or they're afraid that it is true. Those are the biggest motivaters for following a religion.
I think anyone can believe what they want. I absolutely despise people who wage war over religion and people who don't tolerate other beliefs. |
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| Neillster |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:27
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Domestique
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Wilier wrote:
People believe what they choose to believe. Either because they want something to be true or they're afraid that it is true. Those are the biggest motivaters for following a religion.
I think anyone can believe what they want. I absolutely despise people who wage war over religion and people who don't tolerate other beliefs.
So I suppose you wouldn't have much time for the idea 'All other beliefs are wrong and there is only one true belief'?  |
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:33
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Atlantius wrote:
When looking at the course of history religion has in my opinion done more bad than good, be it religious based wars (incl. civil wars), prosecutions of scientists, burning of libraries in places with more knowledge than us or "just" the oppression of the small man making him give what little he has for kings/bishops/popes etc. can live grandiose lives while they prohibit dancing, movies and generally having a good time.
Every War has a relgious component. That is the undeniable truth...
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| Neillster |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:45
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Domestique
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miggi133 wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
When looking at the course of history religion has in my opinion done more bad than good, be it religious based wars (incl. civil wars), prosecutions of scientists, burning of libraries in places with more knowledge than us or "just" the oppression of the small man making him give what little he has for kings/bishops/popes etc. can live grandiose lives while they prohibit dancing, movies and generally having a good time.
Every War has a relgious component. That is the undeniable truth...
Where was the religious component to WW1 and WW2? |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:50
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I'm an agnostic leaning toward the atheist size of center.
To explain: In each case and subject I believe in what I see as logical and what is supported by evidence.
In the case of the existence of one or more deities, the side with the burden of proof has failed to offer any proof or logic in thousands of years; while the opposite side that claims such deities don't exist has offered plenty of logic. Therefore I logically tend toward the latter.
On a moral standpoint I firmly believe in two things:
1. No one should be forced to respect each other's beliefs. Everyone is entitled to think anyone else's beliefs are as retardedly stupid as they want to think.
2. Everyone must respect everyone else's right to believe whatever they want. If my neighbour wants to believe in the tooth fairy I may think it's a ridiculous belief, but I would never dream of telling him he shouldn't believe in it.
In short: Believe what you want, when you want as long as it makes you happy, that's the important thing
But the second you start trying to convert others, we have a problem. I will not initiate a debate on merit of belief, but I will join in when others start one...
which brings me to
Neillster wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
I don't know about the big bang, but it definetly is more possible than creationism.
How is a big bang from nowhere more plausible than a supreme, omnipotent being creating everything?
The big bang is explained by the simple concept of a molecular force of attraction.
The supreme, omnipotent being creating everything is infinitely more complex and therefore infinitely more unlikely.
Just answering because you asked
Neillster wrote:
As to looking back in history, even since the 'enlightenment' of man and the decline of the Christian religion, wars haven't ceased.
Facetious argument. You can't argue that. Religion is just one of the factors that causes wars, and even if it were the only factor your argument would only be valid if religion had completely disappeared.
Yet most of those wars were still caused by religious differences.
Neillster wrote:
Indeed the most brutal people of the last century, the Nazis had their ideology based on social Darwinism.
Social Darwinism? Social Darwinism is strong versus weak, everyone for himself, strong survive and weak die.
The Nazis didn't advocate social darwinism, they advocated the superiority of one people over others. If they believed in social darwinism they wouldn't have SS, Gestapo or even a police force, they'd just go "have at it boys".
I'm not sure you know what "Social Darwinism" means. As evidenced by the fact that you're bringing it up in a discussion of religion just because the name "Darwin" is in tehre.
And since you're trying to spin this into the Nazis somehow being an example of a non-religious movement causing genocide, I'll point out to you that Hitler rarely went an entire public address without mentioning that he was doing the work of his lord Jesus Christ as a major motivation
Neillster wrote:
As to your final point, I couldn't agree more that we need to think over these things ourselves, yet I feel that these '2000+ year old texts' still perfectly describe the nature of man, the state of the world and how we can truly find fulfillment - in Jesus Christ.
As long as you've arrived at that conclusion by thinking it through for yourself, I'm all for it
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:55
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Neillster wrote:
Just to clear up, Moses and the people of Israel didn't kill the Canaanites because they were just there... but as a punishment for the sins which they had committed.
Well, in my opinion that part is pretty much laid out to the narrator
In the bible it is after all a sin to worhship other gods than "God", so it's not that hard to find an excuse for the Canaanites to be sinners
As to looking back in history, even since the 'enlightenment' of man and the decline of the Christian religion, wars haven't ceased. Indeed the most brutal people of the last century, the Nazis had their ideology based on social Darwinism. And yes, whilst there was large scale exploitation of the poor under the Roman Catholic system, I would not call that system Christian.
Please note that I did say "Religion" rather than "Christianity" in this part. I'm as such a Christianity-basher - coming from Denmark that's just the religion I know the best and since Christianity have dominated large parts of the world for quite a few years they have made the most recent abominations. I can't help to wonder where we could have been technologically today had the catholic church not been so violently against science from countries way ahead of Europe. Large parts of our basic science is ultimately built on thoughts from Arabia and ancient Greece. We know that only within recent years have we been able to calculate a calendar with the same accuracy as the Mayans. Just think what we could have achieved had the conquistadors read their books in stead of burning them as heathen ideas.
WW2 had persecution of Jews, Balkan wars in the 90's had religious foundations, the war on terror might as well be called the war in Islam, Northerns Ireland just got hot again, plenty of religious conflicts in Africa. So no Wars haven't ceased - neither have religious wars...
As for the Nazi part my point really is somewhere else. I don't think that political ideologies and religions are fundamentally different apart from the age of the textbooks. Since I don't believe that there is a God and thus doesn't belong to any of the old religions I get annoyed when religions are given a higher place in society.
I believe that all humans should be treated equally - as should all systems of belief - no matter if these include a God or not.
As to your final point, I couldn't agree more that we need to think over these things ourselves, yet I feel that these '2000+ year old texts' still perfectly describe the nature of man, the state of the world and how we can truly find fulfillment - in Jesus Christ.
Fine by me. As I said I'm not a "religious atheist" as I call them. I don't mind people believing in God. We just have to remember that a lot of the detailed rules (that Christianity usually forget is in the bible) is very reasonable/practical rules in small desert-societies in the Middle East. E.g. the thing about not eating for example pork made sense since pork quickly gets bad in warm environment where as beef is much more tolerant. Today we have freezers and fridges, so we don't have to worry too much about our food going bad. The same concept can be applied to most other religious rules. They are either there because it improves health/hygiene or because it helps keep society together. The rules that keep a small society close together tend also to be excluding outsiders, which is a problem in a globalized world...
I don't mind that people find comfort in the thought of God.
I do mind people that use their God as an excuse for unjust actions on whatever scale.
I do mind the concept of religious ideas being protected to a higher degree than other ideas.
I do mind when people are so stuck to their concepts of belief that they can't/won't accept facts - and even worse when they try to suppress facts that contradict their beliefs.
I do mind when Fear of God makes people fear life.
What people decide to fill into the unanswered questions in the world is really not my business.
As Wilier said:
Wilier wrote:
People believe what they choose to believe. Either because they want something to be true or they're afraid that it is true. Those are the biggest motivaters for following a religion.
I think anyone can believe what they want. I absolutely despise people who wage war over religion and people who don't tolerate other beliefs.
In my opinion when people stick fundamentally to their ideas we build conflicts and create problems in stead of working together to solve the problems we face. Then I honestly don't care if their "religion" is called Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Justin Bieber.
If it comforts people to believe everything is part of Gods grand scheme fine by me. Just done use it to deny facts or exclude other groups.
Belief is for use when you have no basis of knowing.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 17-01-2013 13:59
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You know, topics like these are actually very dangerous. It's a hard topic and it's not here for people to try to change other people's minds. It's supposed to be personal and in threads like these it'll probably come to an argument. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 17-01-2013 14:01
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Ian Butler wrote:
You know, topics like these are actually very dangerous. It's a hard topic and it's not here for people to try to change other people's minds. It's supposed to be personal and in threads like these it'll probably come to an argument.
In deed. That's the reason I usually end up making some very long posts, trying to avoid misunderstandings.
Still I think they can be interesting as long as people try to explain their own beliefs and the reasons for that rather than trying to explain why someone else believe what they do...
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| jack888 |
Posted on 17-01-2013 14:42
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Lachi wrote:
What is the difference between believing in the Big Bang theory and believing in God? Both are never to be proved neither could you explain it.
I think it's been touched on above. But yea, just out of interest the big bang theory can be proved in some form.
Basically the cosmologists observe the universe expanding and the more they observe, and the more equations they write to explain these observations, the more they realize that at one point the part of the universe we can observe was once extremely small.
They have a mathematical understanding of how it could happen, but to test their ideas and observe events on that scale with that much energy they need to keep smashing tiny particles together for the next few decades in order to slowly put the puzzle together and verify the mathematics they have. So hopefully in the distant future we will understand "big bangs" like we understand gravity!
I don't think the big bang should disprove anyone's belief in a God though. If physicists end up finding out how and when big bangs occur, I can't see why that would have any impact on the belief that a god is out there and always has been.
Edited by jack888 on 17-01-2013 14:44
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