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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| cilldroichid |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:20
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I'm not very knowledgeable about the world of pro cycling but why do Sky have a doctor with a doping question mark on his head as has been pointed out a few times in this thread?
I mean Sky are asking for suspicions to be raised if their clean, surely they could have found a doctor that has no doping suspicions. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:21
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panther wrote:
Cannot believe what I am reading here
Dave Brailsford got together a track side that beat everyone, are they all dopers ?
Brailsford said about 4 years ago that they would get a UK based team to challenge the world tour top teams with the eventual goal of having a UK based rider win the Tour.
Wiggins and other riders on Sky have trained and worked hard for the past few years to acheive this goal.
What we can say is that anyone who wins a stage, from nowhere, say like Pinot on sunday is a doper, because he had no form on a grand tour.
Was Evans doping last year when he had to chase down Schleck, previously he had been a wheel sucker and showed no sign of chasing down anyone. Doper !!!!!
The sport has been marred to say the least over god knows how many years but give credit where credit is due, Sky have done their homework, done it scientifically and done a lot of bloody hard work.
Every rider who does well is NOT a doper
Thanks for clearing that up for the umpteenth time.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:22
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cilldroichid wrote:
I'm not very knowledgeable about the world of pro cycling but why do Sky have a doctor with a doping question mark on his head as has been pointed out a few times in this thread?
I mean Sky are asking for suspicions to be raised if their clean, surely they could have found a doctor that has no doping suspicions.
He's a team doctor. Is he at all present at the Tour? And is it likely that he is systematically administering drugs to Sky's riders? |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:25
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SweatyViking wrote:
cilldroichid wrote:
I'm not very knowledgeable about the world of pro cycling but why do Sky have a doctor with a doping question mark on his head as has been pointed out a few times in this thread?
I mean Sky are asking for suspicions to be raised if their clean, surely they could have found a doctor that has no doping suspicions.
He's a team doctor. Is he at all present at the Tour? And is it likely that he is systematically administering drugs to Sky's riders?
Saxo Bank are managed by Bjarne Riis, a self confessed doper
Radioshack are managed by Johan Brunyeel, Armstrongs ex manager
however i know there are others out there who hve not been involved in doping since
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| holloway |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:28
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well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders |
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| swsquires |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:28
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God, all this doping talk really disappoints me. Maybe I'm just an idiot for thinking more riders are clean than dirty these days. The completely different style of racing we are seeing certainly points to a change in the times.
Back when Wiggo was a track rider who did a bit on the road he never trained for longer than 4 hours on the road - I remember him almost being proud of it. He was also apparently 10kg heavier than he is now, and said that in 2004 he was practically an alcoholic. It seems that he is now actually dedicated to the sport. As he said in a recent interview, it amazes him that he got 4th in 2009 given the level of his training then compared to what he is doing now.
Froome is widely known to have had an issue with parasites in his blood, which would've impeded his performance massively. If he is now clear of that who knows what he might achieve.
From what I've seen of the estimated power outputs of the Sky riders, they aren't in the "doped" zone. In fact, the link posted by ianrussell gives an excellent description of why what we've seen so far is believable.
The fact is that this year's Tour is a disaster. Look at some of the riders in the top 10. Zubeldia is way past his prime. Nicolas Roche is a good rider, but definitely second tier. Monfort 7th....
Back in the Dauphine Team Sky apparently did a US Postal impression on the Joux Plane. Yes, they rode so strongly that Quintana attacked and gained about 40 seconds by the top. Quintana definitely has great potential, but if he gains 40 seconds it says to me that Sky weren't worryingly strong that day.
I may be British, but I have no bias towards a British team. I don't care who they are - if they are dirty they should be banned. However, I just find it sad that so many people are just jumping to these conclusions that Sky are dirty. I would bet my house on the race being completely different right now if Andy Schleck and Contador were riding, and also if so many of the GC guys weren't suffering from the effects of crashes.
Simon
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:34
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swsquires wrote:
God, all this doping talk really disappoints me. Maybe I'm just an idiot for thinking more riders are clean than dirty these days. The completely different style of racing we are seeing certainly points to a change in the times.
Back when Wiggo was a track rider who did a bit on the road he never trained for longer than 4 hours on the road - I remember him almost being proud of it. He was also apparently 10kg heavier than he is now, and said that in 2004 he was practically an alcoholic. It seems that he is now actually dedicated to the sport. As he said in a recent interview, it amazes him that he got 4th in 2009 given the level of his training then compared to what he is doing now.
Froome is widely known to have had an issue with parasites in his blood, which would've impeded his performance massively. If he is now clear of that who knows what he might achieve.
From what I've seen of the estimated power outputs of the Sky riders, they aren't in the "doped" zone. In fact, the link posted by ianrussell gives an excellent description of why what we've seen so far is believable.
The fact is that this year's Tour is a disaster. Look at some of the riders in the top 10. Zubeldia is way past his prime. Nicolas Roche is a good rider, but definitely second tier. Monfort 7th....
Back in the Dauphine Team Sky apparently did a US Postal impression on the Joux Plane. Yes, they rode so strongly that Quintana attacked and gained about 40 seconds by the top. Quintana definitely has great potential, but if he gains 40 seconds it says to me that Sky weren't worryingly strong that day.
I may be British, but I have no bias towards a British team. I don't care who they are - if they are dirty they should be banned. However, I just find it sad that so many people are just jumping to these conclusions that Sky are dirty. I would bet my house on the race being completely different right now if Andy Schleck and Contador were riding, and also if so many of the GC guys weren't suffering from the effects of crashes.
I just want to adress one point here and that is Froome. Yes he had parasites, but shouldn't that put him back in his progression? not just build it up and explode him into one of the absolute best cyclists of the world as soon as he gets well. It works that way in every other sport atleast, when you are sick or injured ur set back, not getting waaaaay better. |
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| drugsdontwork |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:38
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holloway wrote:
well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders
I think anyone is naturally suspicious when people hit high levels of performance, this is not only in cycling but In many other sports. All people have their favourites (many based on there own nationality) but to make this a nationalistic argument cloudys the issue a little.
The thing that worries me is the certainty of many peoples argument on this thread, it almost reads like...
No they aren't
Yes they are.
No they aren't
There's no wiggle room. 
Nobody is normal
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| SaddleSore |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:49
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Arrrrggggh....bloody hell guys, a team / rider does well and everyone expects/acuses them of doping, what is wrong with you lot......the fact that Team Sky is probably the best run team in the peloton and at the head of it all is Dave Brailsford the brains behind British track success, oh hang on no Chris Hoy's a doper too!! He's got to be cos he's a winner...no guys, what you have hear is hard work, dedication and an excellent management structure behind the riders. The fact that Brailsford took Wiggins (a multiple world and olympic gold medal winning track cyclist, with some of the best power output figures in the world of cycling) made him focus purely on a road programme, lose a lot of weight and work hard for three years to which all that is now paying dividends...it's also funny what wearing the yellow jersey will do for you...it happens every year and this year with Cancellara hanging on in there for the first mountain stage and finishing higher than expected, Voeckler...etc etc
Regarding Froome, so he's having a great race so far, so you guys can't believe his results, the fact that this race is the race he has based his whole season around means nothing...surely Ryder H at the Giro was a similar revelation....what about Nibali when he first came onto the scene?
The only facts you guys have are:-
They hired a dodgy Doctor, you don't think he wuld be followed closely by the authorities due to his checkered past, no?
Results, yeah Wiggins has had a great year it happens in sport, Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, Spanish Football team, have played at a level above everyone else for a few years...dopers the lot of em....
Until they fail a drugs test let's just say well done guys, great riding.
Oh and the reason why Cancellara lost today....he's obviously left the motorised bike at home |
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:50
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drugsdontwork wrote:
holloway wrote:
well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders
I think anyone is naturally suspicious when people hit high levels of performance, this is not only in cycling but In many other sports. All people have their favourites (many based on there own nationality) but to make this a nationalistic argument cloudys the issue a little.
The thing that worries me is the certainty of many peoples argument on this thread, it almost reads like...
No they aren't
Yes they are.
No they aren't
There's no wiggle room.
That is actually what bothers me too, brits put their heads in the sand and doesn't listen to arguments. And everyone else is like "THEY ARE DOPING".
I think there is foul play, but i hope i'm wrong and i'm far from 100% |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:51
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gotlandrules wrote:
drugsdontwork wrote:
holloway wrote:
well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders
I think anyone is naturally suspicious when people hit high levels of performance, this is not only in cycling but In many other sports. All people have their favourites (many based on there own nationality) but to make this a nationalistic argument cloudys the issue a little.
The thing that worries me is the certainty of many peoples argument on this thread, it almost reads like...
No they aren't
Yes they are.
No they aren't
There's no wiggle room.
That is actually what bothers me too, brits put their heads in the sand and doesn't listen to arguments. And everyone else is like "THEY ARE DOPING".
I think there is foul play, but i hope i'm wrong and i'm far from 100%
not all of us
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:53
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TheManxMissile wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
drugsdontwork wrote:
holloway wrote:
well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders
I think anyone is naturally suspicious when people hit high levels of performance, this is not only in cycling but In many other sports. All people have their favourites (many based on there own nationality) but to make this a nationalistic argument cloudys the issue a little.
The thing that worries me is the certainty of many peoples argument on this thread, it almost reads like...
No they aren't
Yes they are.
No they aren't
There's no wiggle room.
That is actually what bothers me too, brits put their heads in the sand and doesn't listen to arguments. And everyone else is like "THEY ARE DOPING".
I think there is foul play, but i hope i'm wrong and i'm far from 100%
not all of us
But most brits on here don't even think it's remotely possible that anyone on sky could ever dope, and thats purely naive. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:54
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gotlandrules wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
drugsdontwork wrote:
holloway wrote:
well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders
I think anyone is naturally suspicious when people hit high levels of performance, this is not only in cycling but In many other sports. All people have their favourites (many based on there own nationality) but to make this a nationalistic argument cloudys the issue a little.
The thing that worries me is the certainty of many peoples argument on this thread, it almost reads like...
No they aren't
Yes they are.
No they aren't
There's no wiggle room.
That is actually what bothers me too, brits put their heads in the sand and doesn't listen to arguments. And everyone else is like "THEY ARE DOPING".
I think there is foul play, but i hope i'm wrong and i'm far from 100%
not all of us
But most brits on here don't even think it's remotely possible that anyone on sky could ever dope, and thats purely naive.
why does that matter?
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| Geezar10 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 22:55
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I'm British and I will admit that the results do look suspicious but if no-one proves that they doped and they receive punishment for it I think we should believe they are clean and people should just accept, and in some peoples cases celebrate, their success. Like they say innocent until proved guilty. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:00
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gotlandrules wrote:
But most brits on here don't even think it's remotely possible that anyone on sky could ever dope, and thats purely naive.
Go on then. Name at least 10 Brits on here who you can guarantee think that. 
Edited by SportingNonsense on 09-07-2012 23:01
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| Kentaurus |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:03
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Geezar10 wrote:
I'm British and I will admit that the results do look suspicious but if no-one proves that they doped and they receive punishment for it I think we should believe they are clean and people should just accept, and in some peoples cases celebrate, their success. Like they say innocent until proved guilty.
Does that standard also hold true for Armstrong?
AZTECA - NBCSN  |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:09
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SaddleSore wrote:
Results, yeah Wiggins has had a great year it happens in sport, Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, Spanish Football team, have played at a level above everyone else for a few years...dopers the lot of em....
Pretty much, tennis has a stated policy of not drug testing the winners of tennis matches. Football's drug testing policy is a joke.
Also that Operatione Fuentes linked him to Spanish football teams and tennis players, but that judge in Spain ordered the case sealed.
But this is a matter for another thread, if you search you can find plenty of posts on this on this forum and elsewhere.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:11
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SportingNonsense wrote:
gotlandrules wrote:
But most brits on here don't even think it's remotely possible that anyone on sky could ever dope, and thats purely naive.
Go on then. Name at least 10 Brits on here who you can guarantee think that.
saddlesore, swsquires, holloway, panther, madsdaman + stage thread
5 is all I could get, but I'm sure others that don't reveal location are as well.
Kidding guys. 
Edited by baseballlover312 on 09-07-2012 23:13
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| dgtgoheels |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:12
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I think a lot of people here say if a rider goes over "X" watts/kg then he is a doper and if he is below that level then he is clean.
While that may be true to some extent we are forgetting about micro-doping.
Like many of the dopers in the 00s they kept their blood levels just under 50% the entire 3 weeks which is unnatural as your hematocrit would decrease from about 45% at the start to 33% (just throwing out numbers) at the end of 3 week race regardless of genetic makeup.
Imagine going for a ride longer than 2 hours everyday and then finishing your ride by going as hard as you can up your local climb. What you will find is a negatively slopped line in terms of wattage, heart rate, and VAM while your time of the climb will increase over the course of the 3 weeks.
So while these numbers of 6.4 wtts/kg for under 20mins and 5.8 wtts/kg over 40 mins seem reasonable it is not a definite note of doping/or not doping as some of the other members have said. More importantly, if these type of performances (numbers) continue or increase then that would raise suspicion indeed.
And for those of who echo Sky's ingredients of winning the Tour: take a look at this video right around the 4min mark. https://www.youtub...UcXB378Qx8 Sound familiar? |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 09-07-2012 23:17
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panther wrote:
Sky have done their homework, done it scientifically and done a lot of bloody hard work.
Exactly.
panther wrote:
Every rider who does well is NOT a doper
I'm not sure, is it some sort of irony I didn't get?
TheManxMissile wrote:
Saxo Bank are managed by Bjarne Riis, a self confessed doper
Radioshack are managed by Johan Brunyeel, Armstrongs ex manager
Yes, and that's why these are the two cleanest teams in the peloton on people's opinion, right?
holloway wrote:
well it seems the forgeniers dont like it when the brits are doing better than there lot stop makong up stories just to cause trouble for the sky riders
Of course that must be it. In the end it's all those damn jealous French guys.
It's indeed funny to see how the Armstrong blind-fanboys arguments are being re-used here (hard work, training more than everybody else, French don't like the Americans winning, never tested positive etc etc)
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