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ICL18 - Race Discussion
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 26-04-2018 19:51
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Even though I don't have a team yet thanks to all the guys who running this, it has been very enjoyable to watch and follow the second half of the season. Looking forward to building PostNL in the off season and seeing us racing in ICL19.
This is the reason why I returned to daily so you must be doing something right  |
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| Vali |
Posted on 26-04-2018 21:36
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Domestique
Posts: 735
Joined: 05-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Our second season already comes to an end. Strangely, it feels like it just about started, probably because you guys did an amazing job at running this show and so the pace was absoultely mind-blowing. Mega thanks to Shonak, Croatia, Abhishek (I hope I didn't forget anyone) and obviously Bikex for doing a superb job throughout the entire season!
First of all congrats to all the winners, especially CarbonSports and also Vittel for dominating their respective dimensions, but also to Aviva as a safe promotee. When looking at the CT rankings, it might appear that we got reasonably close to Vittel in the end but in contrast to us they were also tearing it up in the WT, congrats again on an amazing season Yellow Jersey. 
Our season honestly took a while to really get going, most likely because Caruso underperformed a bit in his first few races. I don't know what changed at that point but from Romandie onwards he was just beasting in basically every single race and was quite obviously the major reason we manged to get 2nd in the end. Puccio and Ponzi completed our Italian triumvirate and these 3 really were our backbone this season.
Unfortunately Cancellara seems to heading towards retirement in a faster way than I would like, as his days as a leader are defintely in the past now. I wouldn't mind signing up Spartacus for another season, albeit with a much reduced wage. Hopefully he remembers his performances this season when we're gonna talk about another contract.
In a way I've also got mixed feelings about promotion, as that probably means I'll have to say goodbye to loads of riders that have been with us from the start. I'm not planning to expand my focus on other regions but we'll see what happens. Anyway, thanks again everyone for a great season and hopefully we're gonna meet again in the WT. 
Credits to the_hoyle for my avatar. |
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| Bikex |
Posted on 27-04-2018 11:24
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Team Leader
Posts: 7255
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
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Also from me still congrats to all the rankings winner.
The team rankings were always going to be won by Carbonsports. Tbh I think it is a little bit of a failure of the transfers system to allow one team to have the best sprinter, stage racer and classics rider. Knockout did very well to combine these three in his team. It will be hard for him to keep his team together the way it is in the next transfers. 
If Betancur hadn't had so much bad luck in the last two races, I'm sure he would've won the individual rankkings, but also Aru is a deserved winner. Unfortunately he couldn't save his team from relegating. Maybe he spent too much racedays in the CT.
In the CT the team as well as the individual rankings were dominated by the winner. Herklotz really profited from his young age here. I have seen many mention that already. Do you guys think, U25 rankings are rewarded by too many points?
Vittel for sure was the best team we ever had in CT. The scoring depth in their team is very impressive. I didn't think the team would be so strong after transfers, but they just won almost everything. Will be interesting to see them in the WT next season. I'm also looking forward to see CreditSuisse and Aviva there. I feel bad for CCC missing the promotion again so closely. While I do hope matt and brewers return in time for next season, if one of them doesn't, CCC will be granted the next promotion spot. I hope you understand Aquarius, but the promotion spots outside of the top 3 were always not solely decided by the rankings. In the last two seasons CCC was already the first team to miss promotion, so their consistency should also be rewarded.
Lastly my team has also won a ranking: Very happy about the results of the team world cup. While I do not have the top scorers in the classics, my team depth there really paid off. This shows the teams rankings work the way I planned when designing them. By that I'm not saying that I made them for my team to win, but for teams with a big depth to win, without necessarily having a big classics star, which is rewarded by the individual rankings. There Sagan was from the beginning the biggest favourite added to that he had the necessary race luck, which made him basically unstoppable. Vanmarcke and GVK gave it a good fight, though. Also impressive result by Demare who won the sprinters world cup, but also a cobbled race. Now Sagan gets to wear a special jersey next season, which should please knockout.
Looking at the country rankings, these teams qualify directly for the world Cup:
 | Italy |  | France |  | Germany |  | Netherlands |  | Belgium |  | Great Britain |  | Colombia |  | Spain |  | USA |  | Australia |  | Kazakhstan |  | Eritrea |  | Poland |  | Norway |  | Austria |
Qualified for the European Qualification Race:
 | Denmark |  | Czech Republic |  | Slovenia |  | Slovakia |  | Ireland |  | Portugal |  | Russia |  | Luxembourg |  | Switzerland |  | Hungary |  | Estonia |  | Croatia |  | Sweden |  | Lithuania |  | Ukraine |  | Latvia |  | Belarus |  | Cyprus |  | Greece |  | Georgia |  | Turkey |  | Finland |  | Serbia |  | Romania |  | Moldavia |  | San Marino |
For QR B:
 | Canada |  | Brazil |  | New Zealand |  | Malaysia |  | Japan |  | Ethiopia |  | Iran |  | Venezuela |  | Sambia |  | Argentina |  | Hong Kong |  | South Africa |  | China |  | Trinidad & Tobago |  | Algeria |  | Costa Rica |  | Kirgizistan |  | Cameroon |  | Indonesia |  | South Korea |  | Bermudas |  | Dominican Republic |  | Simbabwe |  | Mexico |  | Panama |  | Nigeria |
First results will be posted later tonight!
Edited by Bikex on 27-04-2018 11:42
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 27-04-2018 11:59
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11675
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Bikex wrote:
Now Sagan gets to wear a special jersey next season, which should please knockout.
Stop the presses!!!!
****gets the popcorn****
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| Ripley |
Posted on 27-04-2018 20:09
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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In a way I've also got mixed feelings about promotion, as that probably means I'll have to say goodbye to loads of riders that have been with us from the start.
Obviously, all three of us need new riders so we should make a deal to not outbid each other. I propose the simple solution that I have the worst team so I get first pick in all terrains, then Vali and the Yellow Jersey, he's a 3rd round FA expert anyway. Everybody on board?
Do you guys think, U25 rankings are rewarded by too many points?
Good question. The argument could be made that there shouldn't be any prestige points from the U25 rankings. We've already got the GC - and the U25 ranking requires no extra work like points and mountains do. Says the guy with the old team who didn't realise at the start of the season that U25 prestige points existed.
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 27-04-2018 21:44
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ripley wrote:
In a way I've also got mixed feelings about promotion, as that probably means I'll have to say goodbye to loads of riders that have been with us from the start.
Obviously, all three of us need new riders so we should make a deal to not outbid each other. I propose the simple solution that I have the worst team so I get first pick in all terrains, then Vali and the Yellow Jersey, he's a 3rd round FA expert anyway. Everybody on board?
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Fight to the death |
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| knockout |
Posted on 27-04-2018 21:51
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 400.00
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Some people want to see the world burn.
Here is his special jersey:
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Vali |
Posted on 27-04-2018 22:48
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Domestique
Posts: 735
Joined: 05-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Ripley wrote:
Obviously, all three of us need new riders so we should make a deal to not outbid each other. I propose the simple solution that I have the worst team so I get first pick in all terrains, then Vali and the Yellow Jersey, he's a 3rd round FA expert anyway. Everybody on board?
What do you mean, according to your very own formulas my team is clearly the worst.
Credits to the_hoyle for my avatar. |
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| Aquarius97 |
Posted on 27-04-2018 22:49
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4191
Joined: 13-09-2015
PCM$: 300.00
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While I do hope matt and brewers return in time for next season, if one of them doesn't, CCC will be granted the next promotion spot. I hope you understand Aquarius, but the promotion spots outside of the top 3 were always not solely decided by the rankings. In the last two seasons CCC was already the first team to miss promotion, so their consistency should also be rewarded
Yeah, i understand. Better to know it now than later
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| DaveTwoBob |
Posted on 28-04-2018 00:29
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2433
Joined: 07-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Big thanks to Bikex and the reporters for a enjoyable whirlwind of a season.
I am very busy with work so have not been posting as much as I would like.
Congrats to Carbonsports & Vittel for their dominant wins.
Very pleased with the Suntory Orangina U23 squad and the consistency of Edward 2mith. Defending the title will be fun next season.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 07:50
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| OZrocker |
Posted on 28-04-2018 09:30
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1280
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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The youth points do seem to give too much of an advantage to those with talented U25 riders. Maybe we could try giving half the amount of points that are currently awarded?
e.g. TDF White Jersey is currently
| White | 80 | | 2 | 55 | | 3 | 35 | | 4 | 20 | | 5 | 14 | | 6 | 8 | | 7 | 4 | | 8 | 2 |
...but could be changed to
This is just a suggestion. I'm interested to hear what other managers think
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| Shonak |
Posted on 28-04-2018 10:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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It was annoying back when Quintana was still eligible but nowadays it seems like the only option for talents to get a solid flow of points in. Herklotz is the exception really, he is long-time WT rider and ended up in the CT and his U25 are mostly uncontested bc all his equals (Engeldinger, Mohoric etc) do other races. It's a bit unfair but there was money paid for this advantage, too. I wouldn't change the entire system bc of one rider. I've become fairly accustomed to the points by now.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| knockout |
Posted on 28-04-2018 11:36
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 400.00
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I second Shonaks opinion. The points were a bit unfortunate when the RL stars from the original DB (Quintana foremost) dominated but as soon as the newgens take the division over it should be completely fine and more open.
Herklotz in CT is just an extreme case that comes once in a while. It's about as unlikely as a team combining the best sprinter, climber and allrounder into one team. Both of which can happen but wont happen often.
If there is anything in the point scales that could be adjusted it is the difference between ct and pt points. the balance is quite solid since bikex and me redid them after the first season but I feel like ct riders and teams are constantly above where they should be in the prestige ranking. Herklotz is on the same step as Vuelta winner Herrada, Martin scored more points than in previous season iirc and riders like Nerz are higher than they should be too. And while Vittel has been awesome they probably shouldnt sit in 8th in the PR either. Perhaps a 10% reduction to all ct race points might seem sensible |
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| Ripley |
Posted on 28-04-2018 12:50
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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Interesting point, though as a WT team I'd only concentrate on the WT rankings and be indifferent about the prestige rankings.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 28-04-2018 13:36
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Team Leader
Posts: 7255
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
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High points in the U25 classifications should also serve as a motivation to invest into talents.
We can also talk about a slight reduction of points rewarded for CT races, but I don't think it is necessary. Vittel is a big exception. In 2017 the best CT team in the prestige ranking was 14th which I think is an expectable result. Tony Martin did finish higher than in previous seasons but that's also because he did better. He is only 9th in the CT rankings and has also scored more than 800 WT points which is the main reason for his high positioning in the PR rankigns.
Maybe 10% less for CT races would still be the right way to go, I'll think about it.
For those who haven't noticed the ITT qualification races are up: https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....st_1289116
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 28-04-2018 14:58
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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Just a brief stop here to say thanks to all of you who congratulated me It really is a humbling experiece and I'm definetely feeling a lot of pressure to perform in WT
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| OZrocker |
Posted on 29-04-2018 04:46
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1280
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Very good points Shonak and knockout. In theory the points looked too big, but if it's been working well in practice for a few seasons there's no need to change it now.
The Herklotz/Herrada comparison is an interesting one. Just how dominant was Herklotz in the CT? If Herrada had only won a GT and done nothing else I would expect them to be on similar points, but it seems like Herrada had a good season outside of the Vuelta so maybe he should ranked be a bit higher.
On a side note, it's nice to see my focus on signing better time-trialists appears to have worked with a 3rd in the TTT and both Goncalves and Koren qualified for the ITT. 
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| Ripley |
Posted on 29-04-2018 14:27
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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Fuglsang's mentally gone on holiday already, not his finest performances in the qualifying races for ITT and RR. Nice win for Monsalve, though.
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| fjhoekie |
Posted on 29-04-2018 14:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4476
Joined: 25-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Random ITT strikes again.
Manager of Team Popo4Ever p/b Morshynska in the PCM.Daily Man-Game |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 29-04-2018 14:39
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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https://pcmdaily.c...st_1289250
First medal decision posted. I'll do the Elites ITT probably later in the evening.
Spoiler Gratz to Martinez, he climbed well enough and made up all the time to Pulido. Super stoked about Juan's performance. He looked like the winner until Martinez-Train came along but silver is above expectations. VDP also with a good TT in 5th although I hoped that he could win it given his good allround features for this terrain.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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