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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:35
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I wouldn't say Portes PN performance is actually that outstanding.
The startlist is hardly stellar, consisting mostly of growing talents. I know Richie is hardly young, but i still view him as a grower due his overall lack of chances so far in his career.
Siutsou has hardly been the best climber even with Sky.
Rogers definitely doped, but that goes back as far as his T-Moblie days and can hardly be leveled at Sky alone.
I don't mind people hating Sky for being dominant. I do the same in other sports. But just seeing constant accusations with a lack of wider application annoys me. ie Saying a Sky rider is obviously doped, but that the other riders in the same finishing group are not etc.
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| Wilier |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:36
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I'd say ban any technology, no power meters, no race radios, nothing. Let the riders descide how fast they go.
If other teams would follow in Sky's footsteps we could be watching a TT every day.
Edited by Wilier on 09-03-2013 15:36
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:37
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TheManxMissile wrote:
I wouldn't say Portes PN performance is actually that outstanding.
The startlist is hardly stellar, consisting mostly of growing talents. I know Richie is hardly young, but i still view him as a grower due his overall lack of chances so far in his career.
Siutsou has hardly been the best climber even with Sky.
Rogers definitely doped, but that goes back as far as his T-Moblie days and can hardly be leveled at Sky alone.
I don't mind people hating Sky for being dominant. I do the same in other sports. But just seeing constant accusations with a lack of wider application annoys me. ie Saying a Sky rider is obviously doped, but that the other riders in the same finishing group are not etc.
I'm not talking about PN. I'm talking about setting tempo over cat 1 climbs for 40 km while dropping GC favorites in the TDF...
And Siutsou hasn't been outstanding, but he's been a Sky train member so it stands.
No not alone, but does that matter for Rogers?
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| abysmo |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:42
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wrong topic
Edited by abysmo on 09-03-2013 16:02
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 03:38
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:43
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You can't just pick and chose situations, and ignore others.
I could do something similar and pick out specific stages and races which show other teams and riders as dopers by using the same logic.
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:45
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Well Rogers is three-times World TT-champion, as well as 9th place in Tour de France 2006 along with several other good stage-race results in his pre-Sky career. He had a revival last year that's right, but that's more due to a couple of bad seasons than anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_...cyclist%29
As for Porte he is riding his only third season on top-level. In the first he finished 7th in the Giro winning the youth jersey along with several other good results in his first season with WT-races. Then a disappointing 2011, but again a rider that these things were expected from at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_P...chie_Porte
Fair enough to be sceptical, but claiming that riders like this have never shown anything before joining Team Sky is just silly...
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:46
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TheManxMissile wrote:
You can't just pick and chose situations, and ignore others.
I could do something similar and pick out specific stages and races which show other teams and riders as dopers by using the same logic.
Please do.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:48
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Atlantius wrote:
Well Rogers is three-times World TT-champion, as well as 9th place in Tour de France 2006 along with several other good stage-race results in his pre-Sky career. He had a revival last year that's right, but that's more due to a couple of bad seasons than anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_...cyclist%29
Fair enough to be sceptical, but claiming that riders like this have never shown anything before joining Team Sky is just silly...
Rogers - T-Mobile = Definitely doped
No-one tries and denies that frankly, well except Sky
And for certain riders. Froome being prime example, but also Wiggins to an extent. Most riders do go up a level when they join.
Doesn't mean doping, could just mean developemnt
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:50
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Atlantius wrote:
Well Rogers is three-times World TT-champion, as well as 9th place in Tour de France 2006 along with several other good stage-race results in his pre-Sky career. He had a revival last year that's right, but that's more due to a couple of bad seasons than anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_...cyclist%29
As for Porte he is riding his only third season on top-level. In the first he finished 7th in the Giro winning the youth jersey along with several other good results in his first season with WT-races. Then a disappointing 2011, but again a rider that these things were expected from at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_P...chie_Porte
Fair enough to be sceptical, but claiming that riders like this have never shown anything before joining Team Sky is just silly...
Rogers had declined a lot and had doped before. Then he jumped back.
Porte had some potential, but this is ridiculous, the whole SKy Train is ridiculous.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:52
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Well Rogers is three-times World TT-champion, as well as 9th place in Tour de France 2006 along with several other good stage-race results in his pre-Sky career. He had a revival last year that's right, but that's more due to a couple of bad seasons than anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_...cyclist%29
Fair enough to be sceptical, but claiming that riders like this have never shown anything before joining Team Sky is just silly...
Rogers - T-Mobile = Definitely doped
No-one tries and denies that frankly, well except Sky
And for certain riders. Froome being prime example, but also Wiggins to an extent. Most riders do go up a level when they join.
Doesn't mean doping, could just mean developemnt
They go from nobody to the best in the world? Seems legit huh?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:52
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Well Rogers is three-times World TT-champion, as well as 9th place in Tour de France 2006 along with several other good stage-race results in his pre-Sky career. He had a revival last year that's right, but that's more due to a couple of bad seasons than anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_...cyclist%29
Fair enough to be sceptical, but claiming that riders like this have never shown anything before joining Team Sky is just silly...
Rogers - T-Mobile = Definitely doped
No-one tries and denies that frankly, well except Sky
And for certain riders. Froome being prime example, but also Wiggins to an extent. Most riders do go up a level when they join.
Doesn't mean doping, could just mean developemnt
They go from nobody to the best in the world? Seems legit huh?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:53
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Porte had some potential, but this is ridiculous, the whole SKy Train is ridiculous.
So Uran and Henao didn't have the potential to be top climbers?
Cataldo never showed good climbing ability?
Dombrowski is not touted as the next great climber?
There are reasons Sky pick these riders, and that is because they are either very good, or very talented
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:54
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TheManxMissile wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Porte had some potential, but this is ridiculous, the whole SKy Train is ridiculous.
So Uran and Henao didn't have the potential to be top climbers?
Cataldo never showed good climbing ability?
Dombrowski is not touted as the next great climber?
There are reasons Sky pick these riders, and that is because they are either very good, or very talented
Were they on the Sky TDF squad and that schedule last year? No.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:56
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Were they on the Sky TDF squad and that schedule last year? No.
So its not Sky, but Sky's TDF team? Please make this clear in future, especially as it seems to be impacting heavily on your arguement about Sky as a whole
Slightly (un)related: Its hard to take a doping discussion seriously when you still have that Lance quote at the top of your signature 
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:57
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Atlantius wrote:
As for Porte he is riding his only third season on top-level. In the first he finished 7th in the Giro winning the youth jersey along with several other good results in his first season with WT-races. Then a disappointing 2011, but again a rider that these things were expected from at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_P...chie_Porte
Not denying that it was a great performance, but it's worth pointing out that he would've been much further down if he hadn't been in the huge breakaway that gained 15 minutes on the favourites. 
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 16:00
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TheManxMissile wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Were they on the Sky TDF squad and that schedule last year? No.
So its not Sky, but Sky's TDF team? Please make this clear in future, especially as it seems to be impacting heavily on your arguement about Sky as a whole
Slightly (un)related: Its hard to take a doping discussion seriously when you still have that Lance quote at the top of your signature
It's the mainly the main Sky Train. The one that did , Paris-Nice, Romaindie, Dauphine, Tour last eyar. AN danyone that was in their in any other race.
And can you even read that quote?
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 09-03-2013 16:01
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
As for Porte he is riding his only third season on top-level. In the first he finished 7th in the Giro winning the youth jersey along with several other good results in his first season with WT-races. Then a disappointing 2011, but again a rider that these things were expected from at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_P...chie_Porte
Not denying that it was a great performance, but it's worth pointing out that he would've been much further down if he hadn't been in the huge breakaway that gained 15 minutes on the favourites.
He would have been 9th, only two spots down, so not that big difference tbh.
Edited by Alakagom on 09-03-2013 16:01
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 16:03
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Oh thats different. They are all obviously doped (as i always say), along with the majority of the pro peloton.
I can, but it just seems a bit out dated even with the adendum
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 16:06
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Alakagom wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
Not denying that it was a great performance, but it's worth pointing out that he would've been much further down if he hadn't been in the huge breakaway that gained 15 minutes on the favourites.
He would have been 9th, only two spots down, so not that big difference tbh.
10th, actually. Pinotti, Cunego and Mollema would've moved in front of him.
But yeah, I did forget how huge the gaps were behind him.
Edited by Pellizotti2 on 09-03-2013 16:13
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 16:16
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Well Rogers is three-times World TT-champion, as well as 9th place in Tour de France 2006 along with several other good stage-race results in his pre-Sky career. He had a revival last year that's right, but that's more due to a couple of bad seasons than anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_...cyclist%29
As for Porte he is riding his only third season on top-level. In the first he finished 7th in the Giro winning the youth jersey along with several other good results in his first season with WT-races. Then a disappointing 2011, but again a rider that these things were expected from at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_P...chie_Porte
Fair enough to be sceptical, but claiming that riders like this have never shown anything before joining Team Sky is just silly...
Rogers had declined a lot and had doped before. Then he jumped back.
Porte had some potential, but this is ridiculous, the whole SKy Train is ridiculous.
Never said Rogers were clean, merely pointing out that he has delivered decent results throughout his career (also before joining T-Mobile) that have shown him a capable climber when in form. The same goes for Porte: Finishing 9th in your first Grand Tour doesn't say that he should be able to reach this level?
I'm not a Sky fan-boy, but saying that what Rogers and Porte has been delivering before joining Sky (as well as the fact that the Colombian talents have developed) is in my opinion just plain wrong.
I would love it if another team was able to challenge Sky more, but I see absolutely no shocking developments regarding rider skills.
Rogers were only 32 at last years Tour de France and should still have some good years of cycling in him. In fact I find Christopher Horner's achievements the last couple of years much more dodgy looking considering his age...
You can always speculate why Sky seem to be better than others at developing climbing-skills, but I can't see the drastic difference compared to names like Sagan, Kittel, Van Garderen, Moser etc.
Be as critical to Sky as you wan't but don't ignore the rest of the world just to prove your point...
Pelli: I know - I still think it's a quite decent result for your first GT
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
