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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| toreaxe |
Posted on 13-10-2012 22:04
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"Quote". You shouldn't be placed under the doping microscope for beating a sick Evans, and some other GC contenders who are a level below with their TTing ability (i.e. Nibali, Van Den Broeck).
From what i heard from the Tirreno -Adriatico on RAI (ITA TV) was that Nibali and a others i can't recall (other teams as well as Liquigas), was that he had spent a huge time (prior to the T-A) practicing at the velodrome his position for TT, and they found that he wasn't riding in an efficient way. They changed his position on the bike (lowering his seat etc.) and he was noticably faster and getting his maximum output of efficiancy-power. Evidently in 2011 he wasn't at his max, so the improvement in 2012 is justified. I don't think from now on he should improve much in TT.
Edited by toreaxe on 13-10-2012 22:30
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| toreaxe |
Posted on 13-10-2012 22:29
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Alphabet wrote:
stenic wrote:
jt1109 wrote:
I don't like this term trained harder! as i find it impossible that professional athlete's are trying "harder" then each other i think training "smarter" is probably the best word for it wheather that be through legal substances or not.(Sorry for the random outburst )
maybe trained harder is a wrong term, they are fortunate to have a wealthy sponsor who can provide the money to go anywhere in the world for their off season training but the Majorca training camp looked perfect training for TDF. Mark Cavendish is a big advocate of anti doping and regardless of his team this year i don't believe he would stay silent if any of his team mates were doping.
Cav may not have known about it. Not everybody on Postal knew about exactly what Lance was taking, for example; only the elite climbers did.
https://thecycling...alone.html
They seem quite a few, 8 riders have taken action against Armstrong 6 of them are/were still riding, also Bruyneel, Armstrong's ex-manager and "now" Radioshack's manager has now resigned.
https://thecycling...shack.html
Also, Matt White has stepped down as Orica-GreenEDGE sports director for practicly the same reasons.
https://thecycling...orica.html
I think almost everyone knew, if not everyone. Telekom manager says they doped because they knew Armstrong doped and to keep up they also followed the same route. Which certainly isn't a justification, but if correct, tells you that also other teams noticed that he/they were doping at USP.
Edited by toreaxe on 13-10-2012 22:35
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| Flair |
Posted on 14-10-2012 12:16
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The problem I have with the Sky dope theory is that, if Sky and this current generation of riders are doping, then why are they all slower then 10 years ago.
The training methods are better, the legal medical teams are better, the equipment is better, the support is better. Presumable 10 years would also mean that the illegal drugs are better.
But despite that, they are riding slower? |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 14-10-2012 12:21
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Flair wrote:
The problem I have with the Sky dope theory is that, if Sky and this current generation of riders are doping, then why are they all slower then 10 years ago.
The training methods are better, the legal medical teams are better, the equipment is better, the support is better. Presumable 10 years would also mean that the illegal drugs are better.
But despite that, they are riding slower?
By that logic there are no dopers in the peloton.
Dopers are doping in smaller quantities than they previously did. Micro doping is the new norm amongst them.
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| Flair |
Posted on 14-10-2012 13:15
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CountArach wrote:
Flair wrote:
The problem I have with the Sky dope theory is that, if Sky and this current generation of riders are doping, then why are they all slower then 10 years ago.
The training methods are better, the legal medical teams are better, the equipment is better, the support is better. Presumable 10 years would also mean that the illegal drugs are better.
But despite that, they are riding slower?
By that logic there are no dopers in the peloton.
Dopers are doping in smaller quantities than they previously did. Micro doping is the new norm amongst them.
No, by that logic there are only odd individual riders doping. People are pretty much saying they think Sky are systematically doping ala Postal, which is how they just put the whole team on the front of the peleton, pull and a high tempo to kill those that cant keep up cos they arent doping.
Otherwise this would be the Wiggins doping thread. Or the froome doping thread. Or the Contador doping thread. |
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| madzdaman |
Posted on 14-10-2012 13:21
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But even that doesn't make sense as, if Sky were doping as much as Postal(who were against great riders who were doped), then Sky (against not top class riders) should dominate a lot more... |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 14-10-2012 13:44
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Lol, are you saying finishing 1-2 with ease is not domination? |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 28-11-2024 15:27
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 14-10-2012 14:49
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Wilier wrote:
Lol, are you saying finishing 1-2 with ease is not domination?
Meh, the startlist was poor. If Nibali is your biggest challenger at Tour, then that's shows the level isn't the highest it can be.
Add Contador to equation and there would be no Sky train and no Sky domination.
Of course that doesn't stop the fact that Sky dominated this Tour 
Edited by Alakagom on 14-10-2012 14:51
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 14-10-2012 15:46
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madzdaman wrote:
But even that doesn't make sense as, if Sky were doping as much as Postal(who were against great riders who were doped), then Sky (against not top class riders) should dominate a lot more...
Nobody can't dope à la Postal any more, without getting caught.
The margins are much smaller now. Instead of providing 15 to 20 % more power to riders, the figure is probably much closer to 5 or 10 %.
That might not seem much, but it's like the difference between a top 40 rider and a podium contender. |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 14-10-2012 17:14
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Alakagom wrote:
Wilier wrote:
Lol, are you saying finishing 1-2 with ease is not domination?
Meh, the startlist was poor. If Nibali is your biggest challenger at Tour, then that's shows the level isn't the highest it can be.
Add Contador to equation and there would be no Sky train and no Sky domination.
Of course that doesn't stop the fact that Sky dominated this Tour
Yeah, I mean, look at the TTers that were in the Tour. You see, hardly any known names, Cancellara, Van Garderen, who the hell are these guys? The field was so weak that Wiggins and Froome beating everyone by 1 min + is totally understandable. The field must also be the explanation for the 50+ kph average in the final TT.
Add Contador to the equation and Sky would still very probably make 2nd-3rd, if not 1st-3rd. According to this post by Aquarius, Froome's watts at the Tour were as good as Bertie's 2011 Giro ones. And Froome wasn't even going 100% in the climbs of the Tour because of Wiggins (not that he was 60% or something - that'd be just stupid to say - but he could certainly go several seconds or minutes faster if he wasn't in the wind for so many kms working and waiting for Wiggo when he couldn't keep up).
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-10-2012 17:23
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Wilier wrote:
Lol, are you saying finishing 1-2 with ease is not domination?
Meh, the startlist was poor. If Nibali is your biggest challenger at Tour, then that's shows the level isn't the highest it can be.
Add Contador to equation and there would be no Sky train and no Sky domination.
Of course that doesn't stop the fact that Sky dominated this Tour
Yeah, I mean, look at the TTers that were in the Tour. You see, hardly any known names, Cancellara, Van Garderen, who the hell are these guys? The field was so weak that Wiggins and Froome beating everyone by 1 min + is totally understandable. The field must also be the explanation for the 50+ kph average in the final TT.
Add Contador to the equation and Sky would still very probably make 2nd-3rd, if not 1st-3rd. According to this post by Aquarius, Froome's watts at the Tour were as good as Bertie's 2011 Giro ones. And Froome wasn't even going 100% in the climbs of the Tour because of Wiggins (not that he was 60% or something - that'd be just stupid to say - but he could certainly go several seconds or minutes faster if he wasn't in the wind for so many kms working and waiting for Wiggo when he couldn't keep up).
Hopefully in 2 years time I might win the Time Trial and be a credible Time Trial winner because I haven't beaten someone by 2 minutes.
- Bradley Wiggins
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 14-10-2012 17:31
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issoisso wrote:
Hopefully in 2 years time I might win the Time Trial and be a credible Time Trial winner because I haven't beaten someone by 2 minutes.
- Bradley Wiggins
Would love to hear Wiggins comment on what he thinks of this statement now. We need a journalist to ask him.
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| pcm2009fan |
Posted on 14-10-2012 17:39
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The whole 'miracle' thing doesn't buy me so much - amongst many other feats already discussed, Wiggins was a world pursuit champion at 22 - according to his coaches - without ever putting in much dedication to his training. In 2007 he began to focus on the road and immediately showed a degree of promise in his debut tour. After we all know that he suffered with a lot of depression and spent a year boozing out, basically until 2009 where he fulfilled his potential, and I'd be dammed if this wasn't with the help of a little something else that slipped into conversation with Bertie or Schleck. Or Evans. Or Nibali. Or Cobo. Or Valverde...
Hesjedal and Rodriguez both becoming world beaters at 29 years old is more miraculous to me though. De Gendt? |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 14-10-2012 18:05
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RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-10-2012 18:13
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pcm2009fan wrote:
Rodriguez (...) becoming world beaters at 29 years old is more miraculous to me though. De Gendt?
Yes, a guy who mountain stages of his first Vuelta at age 24, and a guy who finished 5th on Alpe d'Huez and 3rd in the final TT at 24yo in his first Grand Tour are so much more suspicious than a guy who didn't win a single important TT in the first 10 years of his career
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 14-10-2012 18:19
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It is worth noting that late-bloomers are something that frequently occur in many, many sports, including plenty that don't have the same possibilities as to their being something undue about it. It's entirely possible for someone to take leaps into their late 20s, especially if they were not as serious about training at a younger age as they become. Time trialing is a great example of this. If De Gendt didn't focus on it as a young rider, he may not have developed the experienced needed to be a quality time trialist, in terms of pacing himself physically and mentally. |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 14-10-2012 18:29
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Deadpool wrote:
It is worth noting that late-bloomers are something that frequently occur in many, many sports, including plenty that don't have the same possibilities as to their being something undue about it. It's entirely possible for someone to take leaps into their late 20s, especially if they were not as serious about training at a younger age as they become. Time trialing is a great example of this. If De Gendt didn't focus on it as a young rider, he may not have developed the experienced needed to be a quality time trialist, in terms of pacing himself physically and mentally.
Wiggins concentrated on TT though. |
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| Deadpool |
Posted on 14-10-2012 18:35
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I was talking about De Gendt, referring to isso's post.
EDIT: Must've misread isso's post. De Gendt hasn't been around for 10 years...
Edited by Deadpool on 14-10-2012 18:36
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| pcm2009fan |
Posted on 14-10-2012 19:09
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issoisso wrote:
Yes, a guy who mountain stages of his first Vuelta at age 24, and a guy who finished 5th on Alpe d'Huez and 3rd in the final TT at 24yo in his first Grand Tour are so much more suspicious than a guy who didn't win a single important TT in the first 10 years of his career
I wasn't too sure about De Gendt's past but I can't find any noteworthy result - never mind world champs/olympic medals - in his earlier days before he suddenly became a class climber. I had thought he was a little older than 25 now actually but I was just throwing a name out there as a suggestion in any case.
You probably know best but as far as I was aware, Wiggins concentrated his resources solely on the track & prologues until 2007 (and without the dedication that other athletes his level trained with), not 99/2000 like you are suggesting?
Just throwing some of my thoughts into the melting pot about the "miracle"
Not trying to defend Wiggins' cleanliness for a moment in case it seemed so - I think we came to a conclusion on that long enough ago  |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 14-10-2012 19:35
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Hesjedal is not in any way a world beater
He's maybe in the Top 20 climbers in the world. He was always a fairly decent climber and since about 07 he has gradually grown better. He's still suspicious I suppose, but most riders these days are, if I'm honest.
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