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Tour de France - Discussion
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 18-03-2025 10:26
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World Champion
Posts: 11454
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1120.00
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What the hell? Shades of Spilak not chasing Taaramae in 2018, but instead of a late attack for a couple of minutes it's a breakaway for several...
Meanwhile Fouche doing a great job losing time, hope he can actually use that for substantive attacks unlike at the Giro. Who knows, if this can happen when Kudus gets away surely they give Fouche over an hour...
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 18-03-2025 10:51
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3296
Joined: 23-07-2008
PCM$: 400.00
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I like to think of this as Kudos taking a page out of Bernal's book from Suisse what a performance! |
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 18-03-2025 11:04
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3518
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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Quite a stage, would have expected Evonik to chase harder, but seems like they have quite some faith in Lecuisinier's upcoming thirteen stages. Aular and Lopez Nolasco doing well to be 7th and 19th so far, but the time trial probably will make them see lose some time and places. Hope they can keep this mountain form up though. Congratulations on a stage that (possibly?) secures staying in PT, roman, and thank you Ulrich for a great written report!
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| Roman |
Posted on 18-03-2025 14:47
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 29-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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 Wait, what?!?! 
This has to be the craziest stage in MG history, it doesn't make sense at all how peloton just let Kudus ride away all day long. And I actually thought losing some seconds due to bad positioning was a major issue...
I never thought even an attempt for such a crazy attack attempt in a Floyd Landis 2006 style was in PCM's possibilities, what is even crazier is that PCM allowed it to succeed. I am not sure if I really should be happy about this because if this would happen the other way, I would be just so sad about it. Just doesn't make sense the peloton never did anything. It is nice to actually be on the other way of getting luck and may be a huge season changer after major fails earlier this season, but it just feels really weird.
But who knows, maybe this is just a start: my support team for Kudus is definitely not great and therefore we may see many more stages in this style even if my team uses domestiques as it should. Maybe it's not over yet. But if Kudus loses the race from this position, it will be an absolute fail.
Thanks a lot for the report.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 18-03-2025 17:21
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2691
Joined: 20-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Damn that is brutal to knockout. You have my commiserations, man. Glad that we're switching to a different game next year. These nonsensical GT flukes are game breaking.
If the peloton had tried to chase to the best of their ability and Kudus would've beaten them, this would've been an awesome stunt by him.
But just like when Dombrowski got f*cked out of a guaranteed GC win in stage 20 of last season's Giro, the peloton hardly tried for most of the stage. Even at the bottom of the final climb, Evonik's top domestique got himself caught behind a split instead of leading the chase. This is just the AI bugging out.
One pattern I notice is that the last time this happened, it was also a stage where there was non-stop climbing or descending and hardly any flat or low percentage roads. Something about that seems to have the potential to make the top favourite and his team behave strangely passive while their GC is getting destroyed in front of their eyes.
For us it was a decent stage btw, with Warchol doing what he is supposed to. But that is irrelevant compared to the farce that just happened in the fight for the Tour de France win.
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| knockout |
Posted on 18-03-2025 20:48
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7854
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 500.00
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DubbelDekker wrote:
Damn that is brutal to knockout. You have my commiserations, man. Glad that we're switching to a different game next year. These nonsensical GT flukes are game breaking.
If the peloton had tried to chase to the best of their ability and Kudus would've beaten them, this would've been an awesome stunt by him.
But just like when Dombrowski got f*cked out of a guaranteed GC win in stage 20 of last season's Giro, the peloton hardly tried for most of the stage. Even at the bottom of the final climb, Evonik's top domestique got himself caught behind a split instead of leading the chase. This is just the AI bugging out.
Thanks. If anybody knows this situation its you and i feel your comment matches a lot of the thoughts ive had over the day. This seems not a case of sending too weak of a support lineup, a terrible daily shape or a tactical error by my (and/or other) teams. This was just an AI malfunctioning to the highest degree from my POV.
A few quick words for Ulrich: ignoring the b@%#^# AI, this report like the others was very well written. Thanks for that! Its obvious that you always put a lot of effort into it and you deserve that the involved managers - especially those that are still in the race podium fight - follow along and commentate properly. I will of course follow the remaining stages but i want to say a quick sorry if my comments will be unenthusiastic one liners for the rest of the race even if there might be further stage wins etc. Hard to be positive when the whole hype for a super interesting duel and hopes to potentially still be in a title fight in case of a dominant race comes crashing down in this manner.
Roman, congrats to the stage win, yellow, polkadots and whatever else comes out of this. Sincerely hope that you can enjoy it!
PS: what are the odds that Lecuisinier will miss out on the podium because of breaks on the final two mountain stages will be given a ton of time due to the gap to yellow being so large?
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 18-03-2025 20:54
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4855
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Oof... Guess that's pretty much the wildest MG stage I've seen so far. Commiserations to knockout (and all the other top GC contenders). And congrats to Moser. Looks like Vuelta and TdF will save your season. The Tour is obviously still far from over, and as Roman said, Moser might have some difficulties in controlling the race. But I can't imagine the AI going THAT crazy again... Hopefully the new version won't have this kind of Artificial Dumbness anymore (can't seriously call that "intelligence"...).
Bad stage for us overall as well, fortunately it doesn't matter that much. Rohendi did a great job and seemed to be on an awesome day, until Kudus smashed everything. And Darbellay sadly throws away any hopes of a Top 20 finish already, not even ending up in the Top 50. Even behind "world class climbers" like Sergis or Madouas. But the other GTs have shown that 78 climbers just perform completely randomly, can be almost Top 10 on one day and barely Top 100 on the next... Now he's got no excuses for not joining breaks at least ^^
Thanks for the report. Not sure what I'd have done in that situation as a reporter, in any case I would've been really annoyed by such a dumb engine...
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 19-03-2025 02:57
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3435
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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Thanks for the positive comments. While I have defended some of the AI outliers I can't defend this one. Evonik should have chased hard at some point and they never did. I considered rerunning this stage but I have a pretty high bar to do that and for a few reasons I decided not to. The main one being if it had gone badly and Kudus lost time I doubt I would have considered a rerun. Can expand on that at the end of the race but want to avoid spoilers.
I agree with DD's comment on the AI waiting for flat that doesn't exist to chase. I also think TT is overvalued so lower TT riders are given more leeway than they should be.
Knockout - no worries I can get this impacting your motivation.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 20-03-2025 02:19
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Joined: 23.11.09
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| redordead |
Posted on 19-03-2025 07:09
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5043
Joined: 18-10-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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Pogacar winning a flat stage, WTF is this race?!
I guess it probably shouldn't have been classed as flat 
We definitely made up some ground after the poor mountain stage. Though it's not ideal that the on paper main competitors in Haig and Sivakov finished 2nd and 3rd. Still we gotta keep collecting points in any way we can!
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 19-03-2025 07:34
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World Champion
Posts: 14006
Joined: 05-08-2008
PCM$: 300.00
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I thought this would be a well suited stage for Grosu so a bit disappointed not to see him at least on the podium. It's good he made up some points in the green jersey classification though, but still plenty of rider that could get mixed up in there.
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| ember |
Posted on 19-03-2025 07:51
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Team Leader
Posts: 6975
Joined: 27-03-2008
PCM$: 700.00
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Peak in fifth and the second best sprinter is more like it on suverent a stage. Hopefully he can be consistent going forward on the more difficult flat stages. At least I hope is flat and backup stats makes him a strong contender for those.
Congratulations on another win, red! Two stage wins from Pogacar and Rajovic is quite something in such a field. Very cool!  |
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| roturn |
Posted on 19-03-2025 10:12
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Team Manager
Posts: 22282
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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This Tour really goes pretty disappointing so far...
Cras is doing all but smart things. On stages he should be in the break, he tries to go for a GC top20 and 0 pointers. On days, he should just sit in the peloton safely, he is losing lots of minutes, probably due to bad positioning in the pack.
So both doesn`t suit well together and he should just take advantage of the time loss and attack for the KoM jersey in the mountains instead. Hopefully this will work better in the second half.
Other than that, nothing to tell but wow, Kudus. Rare huge time gap here for a top favourite and obviously disaster for the others starting with Lecuisinier.
Thanks for the reports. |
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 19-03-2025 11:25
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3518
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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A strong stage for Cedevita, second stage win for them with the second regional homegrown rider is really nice to see, congratulations!
A nothing stage for us again, Marin can't handle those hills and Aular was also quite far off the top-10 today, but he didn't lose time so we'll take it. Still below ten points so far in this race with several relegation rivals scoring (well), so it would be nice to see Marin do well tomorrow in a stage that should suit him.
Thanks for another stellar report, Ulrich!
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| kandesbunzler26 |
Posted on 19-03-2025 11:51
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1331
Joined: 07-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Congrats to Roman and (once again) Red! And commiserations to all those affected by Kudus' big day, although it's been a huge effort from a (more) neutral point of view nonetheless. Our riders keep joining the breaks nicely, so everything's fine for us.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 19-03-2025 12:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16571
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10938.70
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I hope Walls can finally do something tomorrow.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 19-03-2025 12:24
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2711
Joined: 31-12-2007
PCM$: 450.00
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Kudos to Kudus, epic stuff for sure!
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| Roman |
Posted on 19-03-2025 13:06
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 29-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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PCM roulette is really something when 63 SP Pogacar wins a sprint finish. i mean it is a great win and congrats to redordead, but managers with sprinter favourites surely has to be a lot frustrated with stages like this. Totally understand knockout's view about that Kudus stage: the RNG part of the game is too much currently...
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 19-03-2025 19:07
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2691
Joined: 20-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok so the climbers end up winning this sprint stage, but my 80/74 rated lead climber gets dropped from the 132 rider peloton in the final 2km uphill. And despite almost the entire team helping him, they manage to lose 2'33 in that tiny bump.
This game is tripping lately...
But hey, maybe this loss allows Warchol to join a winning breakaway later.
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 19-03-2025 20:43
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4855
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Oof... I really need to get better at reading profiles. Thought this was a stage where Groves should end up 2nd behind Grosu. Turns out the final hill was a bit too long, but difficult to estimate that. What sucks more is that Kanter and Peak beat Grosu and Groves - I'm not just bad at reading profiles, apparently I have no understanding of stats, either ^^ Cannot see why they should finish ahead, but alas.
Hopefully we'll finally get some luck in this race tomorrow, not many chances left for the sprinters. In particular given that Cedevita, MOL and Moser all seem to score big, which I cannot like at all, we really need some good results now.
Thanks for the report.
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