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Tour de France 2023
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| Imladrik |
Posted on 15-07-2023 13:39
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Well, everybdody was saying how this tour was "calmer", with fewer casualties due to the hard beginning, but today begins as a massacre game.
“...the secret of the Great Stories is that they have no secrets. The Great Stories are the ones you have heard and want to hear again. The ones you can enter anywhere and inhabit comfortably."
A. Roy
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| Tamijo |
Posted on 15-07-2023 14:45
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Ya, sad start today. Hope it turn out to be minor injuries.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-07-2023 16:52
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This has to be the best TdF in recent history, right
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 06:24
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-07-2023 18:17
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Do you mean the motorcycles blocking race deciding attacks? Or the dangerous finishes we had earlier?
Racing has been great so far, but the race organisation is making very basic errors.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 15-07-2023 19:43
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Yes, Pogacar would have won the Tour today if it hadn't been for that moto incident 
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 15-07-2023 23:12
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in this "marginal differences cycling" it's quite serious what happened, you put bonificationes at the top of the climbs and then you fake it like this. Own goal.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 16-07-2023 08:34
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Sure, it's serious and barriers should have been put up there to prevent spectators from blocking the road. But calling that a race deciding attack is too much unless Pogacar will end up losing the race by 6 seconds or less.
Pogacar didn't make a big fuss about it at the finish. Just like Van Aert didn't make a big fuss about Vingegaard not taking pulls in the second stage. It's always the fans and the so called experts that are blowing it out of proportion.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 16-07-2023 09:22
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alexkr00 wrote:
Sure, it's serious and barriers should have been put up there to prevent spectators from blocking the road. But calling that a race deciding attack is too much unless Pogacar will end up losing the race by 6 seconds or less.
Pogacar didn't make a big fuss about it at the finish. Just like Van Aert didn't make a big fuss about Vingegaard not taking pulls in the second stage. It's always the fans and the so called experts that are blowing it out of proportion.
Ah yes, since athletes do not call things out it must mean that they didnt matter. Just like that time some NBA players decided not to call out China for their bullshit when it was going down a few years back (not the best example but one to illustrate that it doesnt matter what athletes say, they cannot be objective)
And of course, a stopped attack does have an impact on the race, any extra energy spent is vitally important this late in the tour, whether it be in Pogis or Jonas' favor
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 16-07-2023 09:36
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Fitst off all I think most of us agree this could be a very close Tour de France. Pogacar could've gained 7 seconds yesterday, but instead he lost 1. Aside from those 8 seconds, there is also the scenario where Pogacar has a gap at the top and keeps it during the descent. We'll never know of course, but I wouldn't just dismiss it. Pogacar may have lost the race yesterday, depending on how close the rest of the race is.
Also, I think it's very naive to think riders' press statements are accurately represent what they are thinking.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 16-07-2023 10:04
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I see, the moto also decided the stage win now.
I really doubt Pogacar would have continued to ride hard enough after that attack to block Rodriguez from coming back if he doesn't drop Vingegaard. And I have serious doubts he would have dropped Vingegaard again since he lost the sprint at the top.
Even after the botched attacked, Pogacar could have rode a pace high enough to not allow Rodriguez to come back and take the stage win himself, but didn't.
I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, I'm saying it would have been very unlikely based on everything that we saw yesterday.
Yes, we shouldn't take what they are saying as the 100% truth, but what they say it's still better than made up scenarios created by fans.
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| Tamijo |
Posted on 16-07-2023 10:48
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But, no matter how much it affected the outcome, it is annoying to see the bikes in front of rider, sometimes giving pace or in this case blocking both Poga and later Yates group. Hope something like this can at least help them be more careful and get out of the way in those obviously decisive moments.
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 16-07-2023 13:47
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The moto incident was a bad moment for the race....
But nowhere near as race rigging as has occurred in the recent past...
Remember Alaphalippe being denied the yellow jersey because the race finish line was declared AFTER riders had already past it?
Remember the Mount Ventoux disaster in 2013, when the rider who DIDNT break the rules (Mollema) was extensively punished to ensure the yellow jersey (Froome) didn't lose time?
The organizers of the TdF are much, MUCH more obvious in their rigging than a momentary attack shutdown. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 16-07-2023 14:17
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I'm fairly certain neutralizing the last climb played in favor of Alaphilipe. It actually gave him a chance at the podium the next day. He would have lost buckets of time on the last climb.
Or are you claiming the whole stage should have been neutralized? That would have been even crazier since Alaphilipe had lost the yellow jersey already on the road. And giving it back to him would have definitely been more rigged than the actual outcome
At the time some people, myself included, were arguing that maybe Kruijswijk would have been stronger than Bernal on the final climb or at least would have followed him if he knew that the finish will be earlier. But we saw the next day that Bernal was in fact the strongest and the deserved winner.
I agree somewhat with the Froome incident, but that kind of incident almost never happens and it's impossible to be fair to everyone. It would have been unfair to punish Froome for an incident he was not responsible for and that fell on the organizers.
In the end, neither of those mattered as the strongest rider ended up winning the race in both ocasions anyway. Hopefully, it will be the same this year. If Pog wins they don't matter anyway and if Vingegaard wins it will be by more than a handful of seconds.
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 16-07-2023 21:08
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Stagiare
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The Alaphalippe situation should have been decided much further in advance...and retroactively determining a finish line is problematic.
The Mont Ventoux situation I don't think was at all the right choice.
Had Froome waited for neutral service or ANY service...then I agree with you. But he didn't. He flagrantly broke the rules and then was not just not penalized, but REWARDED for doing so.
That adjudication also pretty much ended the race. It would have been far more interesting to see the Sky Train and Froome take that time back in the coming days.
Instead, the GC battle was over, essentially determined by the ASO.
(And yes, I think Sky and Froome still win even if he lost time on Ventoux.)
My whole point is that Pogs denied attack isn't a big deal compared to other years. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 17-07-2023 12:03
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Week 2 as good as Week 1? Pretty much. Shaping up for an all-timer of a Tour. And yet, it feels almost inevitable that Pogacar will come away with the win by more than 60".
Moto's were of course a moment of high drama. Although far less impactful on the race than a selfie taking fan. Are roadside fans getting dumber? Or do I just not remember many of the older crashes they cause (outside the truly famous Huez/Armstrong incident)?
Moto's got kicked out, fair enough. Hopefully ASO take a look at positioning of the bonus line in relation to barriers & staffing. What we won't see are fans taking a look at their actions, and that's a shame.
Anyway, onto Week 3. I'd love Jonas to win by 5" just to watch the inevitable melt down. I'd love Pogacar to go full nuclear doping and win by over 2'00 just to watch the inevitable melt down.
But really i'm still just sad Cav ain't in to claim the record on the Champs.
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| Imladrik |
Posted on 17-07-2023 12:23
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Moto's were of course a moment of high drama. Although far less impactful on the race than a selfie taking fan. Are roadside fans getting dumber? Or do I just not remember many of the older crashes they cause (outside the truly famous Huez/Armstrong incident)?
Moto's got kicked out, fair enough. Hopefully ASO take a look at positioning of the bonus line in relation to barriers & staffing. What we won't see are fans taking a look at their actions, and that's a shame.
I'm not sure they're being dumber. If selfie/photo/video taking is maybe more a thing, and sometimes dangereous (see yesterday - though the guy is identified now), I think the fact that there weren't too much of crashes due to spectators show that people tend to understand they have to be cautious. Also remember that most people on the road juste happen to live there/be on vacation where the Tour passes. They're not fan of cycling by any means.
But let's remember the Opi Omi situation, etc.
On the moto situation, I think that it's a mean for ASO to hide their own fault. Though I'm not in favor in barriers where there is no threat for the riders integrity, the motos could indeed not do much more than stay here. They would have crushed people otherwise. They should probably not have been side by side.
But in the end, they represented the who press (and moreover, the main sport newspaper in France) and France Television, the things that do that the Tour is the Tour.
(Sorry, nothing very clear and well written, I'm French, where do you think I got my terrible accent).
In any case, interesting week to come!
“...the secret of the Great Stories is that they have no secrets. The Great Stories are the ones you have heard and want to hear again. The ones you can enter anywhere and inhabit comfortably."
A. Roy
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 17-07-2023 13:16
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with or without moto, despite the differences in seconds could be very low, there would have been much difference if yellow Jersey is on Jonas or Tadej, in race tactics and in ITT order, so that few seconds make much more sense than the time itself
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 17-07-2023 13:21
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Admittedly I've been very busy and mostly watching highlights this Tour, but can't say I've been disappointed with this battle. WIsh there were more secondary GC players involved, but this may be the best duel I've seen in my lifetime. I genuinely don't know how it's gonna turn out.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 17-07-2023 20:16
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Great Tour indeed so far - amazing rivalry between the two dogs, nice austrian random appearance by gall, and the emergence of a true spanish contender, at least for the podium. Rooting for Vingegaard but both are true race machines and it might go down to the wire. If it does i hope it wont just come down to bonus seconds.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Arberg |
Posted on 18-07-2023 16:36
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
