Have a good day: You are a cheat
Have a bad day: You are a looser or was a cheat yesterday or both.
Have a good tour: You are such a freaking cheat - awful
Have a bad your: You a just such a loser my god go home.
Tamijo wrote:
Have a good day: You are a cheat
Have a bad day: You are a looser or was a cheat yesterday or both.
Have a good tour: You are such a freaking cheat - awful
Have a bad your: You a just such a loser my god go home.
I think it's more about an overall leap forward in performance. Like Froome and Wiggins being dominating GC riders all of a sudden.
I myself am not sure whether Yates progression from last year raises doubt
I still think the Giro is not over for both Tom D or Froomy. And this is because this race is the most spectacular within all three grand tours. There are 3 uphill finishes this week where anything can happen.
Don't forget boys 2016 the GIRO where Kruijswijk lost the tour on the descent to Risoul and he had around 3 mins to Nibbles on that time (stage 19 if I remember well).
StevenGreen wrote:
I think it's more about an overall leap forward in performance. Like Froome and Wiggins being dominating GC riders all of a sudden.
I myself am not sure whether Yates progression from last year raises doubt
7th in the Tour, 2nd in Romandie, 10th + Stage win in Paris-Nice in 2017
6th in Vuelta with stage win, 7th in San Sebastian, 7th in Paris-Nice in 2016
5th in Dauphine, 6th in Romandie, 5th in Pais Vasco in 2015
Where's the massive leap in performance? Struggled at bit in 2014 moving up to the WT, but in 2014 he got a stage win the ToB for 3rd overall, won two stages of Avenir and was generally regarded as a pretty good talent as far back as 2011 when he won a stage of Avenir.
Not saying he's clean, but saying he's jumped from nowhere is rather unfair.
Yatesy is a TUE user so there's always some good doubt but they way that he rides is very entertaining and his progression is very natural, I say. The ITT is also a pretty solid but nothing that raises doubts tbh. It's rather surprising that Dumoulin was sorta weak, after all he was supposed to smash his opponents today.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
StevenGreen wrote:
I think it's more about an overall leap forward in performance. Like Froome and Wiggins being dominating GC riders all of a sudden.
I myself am not sure whether Yates progression from last year raises doubt
7th in the Tour, 2nd in Romandie, 10th + Stage win in Paris-Nice in 2017
6th in Vuelta with stage win, 7th in San Sebastian, 7th in Paris-Nice in 2016
5th in Dauphine, 6th in Romandie, 5th in Pais Vasco in 2015
Where's the massive leap in performance? Struggled at bit in 2014 moving up to the WT, but in 2014 he got a stage win the ToB for 3rd overall, won two stages of Avenir and was generally regarded as a pretty good talent as far back as 2011 when he won a stage of Avenir.
Not saying he's clean, but saying he's jumped from nowhere is rather unfair.
I've never said, he jumped from nowhere, but he's basically beating the best riders in the world, like they're neo-pros.
StevenGreen wrote:
I think it's more about an overall leap forward in performance. Like Froome and Wiggins being dominating GC riders all of a sudden.
I myself am not sure whether Yates progression from last year raises doubt
7th in the Tour, 2nd in Romandie, 10th + Stage win in Paris-Nice in 2017
6th in Vuelta with stage win, 7th in San Sebastian, 7th in Paris-Nice in 2016
5th in Dauphine, 6th in Romandie, 5th in Pais Vasco in 2015
Where's the massive leap in performance? Struggled at bit in 2014 moving up to the WT, but in 2014 he got a stage win the ToB for 3rd overall, won two stages of Avenir and was generally regarded as a pretty good talent as far back as 2011 when he won a stage of Avenir.
Not saying he's clean, but saying he's jumped from nowhere is rather unfair.
I didn't say he jumped, but he certainly progressed. As I said, I don't know if his progression raises doubt or not. However him having been caught before does not favor his case
StevenGreen wrote:
I think it's more about an overall leap forward in performance. Like Froome and Wiggins being dominating GC riders all of a sudden.
I myself am not sure whether Yates progression from last year raises doubt
7th in the Tour, 2nd in Romandie, 10th + Stage win in Paris-Nice in 2017
6th in Vuelta with stage win, 7th in San Sebastian, 7th in Paris-Nice in 2016
5th in Dauphine, 6th in Romandie, 5th in Pais Vasco in 2015
Where's the massive leap in performance? Struggled at bit in 2014 moving up to the WT, but in 2014 he got a stage win the ToB for 3rd overall, won two stages of Avenir and was generally regarded as a pretty good talent as far back as 2011 when he won a stage of Avenir.
Not saying he's clean, but saying he's jumped from nowhere is rather unfair.
I didn't say he jumped, but he certainly progressed. As I said, I don't know if his progression raises doubt or not. However him having been caught before does not favor his case
But Yates being "caught" before was a completely different situation from what you're making out. From my understanding it was a clerical error on the team's behalf rather than Yates going over the prescribed limits a la Froome.
Has he served a ban? Sure, but he is far from the levels of Contador, Armstrong, Valverde etc... Not even a cheat IMO (Although I'd ban TUEs in general, but thats a story for another time...)
John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25
I've never said, he jumped from nowhere, but he's basically beating the best riders in the world, like they're neo-pros.
Is he though?
If the race ends now, then of the Top 13 riders in GC, 10 will have achieved their highest ever GT finish. (Joint highest in Bennett's case)
Of the other 3, Froome clearly isn't riding at his TdF level, Dumoulin isn't riding as well as he did last year, and particularly after today, you can't argue this is Pinot at top form either.
I've never said, he jumped from nowhere, but he's basically beating the best riders in the world, like they're neo-pros.
Is he though?
If the race ends now, then of the Top 13 riders in GC, 10 will have achieved their highest ever GT finish. (Joint highest in Bennett's case)
Of the other 3, Froome clearly isn't riding at his TdF level, Dumoulin isn't riding as well as he did last year, and particularly after today, you can't argue this is Pinot at top form either.
Eh, if you take Yates out of equation then Dumoulin leads with more than 2 minute on his closest rival with only 44 km of TT-ing compared to last years 69 km.
And Pinot was terrible today because he is very bad after a rest day. Last years' Giro was a very good example of it. Nothing to do with top-form or not imo.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan' Gracias Alberto.
StevenGreen wrote:
I think it's more about an overall leap forward in performance. Like Froome and Wiggins being dominating GC riders all of a sudden.
I myself am not sure whether Yates progression from last year raises doubt
7th in the Tour, 2nd in Romandie, 10th + Stage win in Paris-Nice in 2017
6th in Vuelta with stage win, 7th in San Sebastian, 7th in Paris-Nice in 2016
5th in Dauphine, 6th in Romandie, 5th in Pais Vasco in 2015
Where's the massive leap in performance? Struggled at bit in 2014 moving up to the WT, but in 2014 he got a stage win the ToB for 3rd overall, won two stages of Avenir and was generally regarded as a pretty good talent as far back as 2011 when he won a stage of Avenir.
Not saying he's clean, but saying he's jumped from nowhere is rather unfair.
There is a huge difference between coming 7th in a GT where he was mostly following wheels all race and even struggling to do it last week and dominating a GT with winning 3 stages, gifting one and being far and away the strongest rider in the race.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan' Gracias Alberto.
I agree, this field was rather lacklustre now that Aru has specialized in dominating time trials ala Anquetil and Froome has fully transformed to a yoyo when it comes to form. Dumoulin is holding up fairly well in the mountains but he was supposed to smash it today. Instead he lost it the rider of Rohan, who is also riding for GC mind you (but arguably has had more reserves after sunday).
Pozzovivo is mostly an also-ran in the Giro although that is mostly down to bad luck in the past. It's highly deserved that he gets a podium one of these days. Pinot is certainly worse than last year, he is not even attacking as much as he used to against Nairito and Nibs. Lopez not in peak shape either, plus ridiculous bike handling skills.
The only thing that's remarkable is that Yates won 3 stages imo a la pedal, although his most impressive display was Zoncolan. However, time differences were rather limited in that regard. The rest he makes up with his cunegoesque racing and purito punch. Very excitng rider, imo.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Shonak wrote:
I agree, this field was rather lacklustre now that Aru has specialized in dominating time trials ala Anquetil and Froome has fully transformed to a yoyo when it comes to form. Dumoulin is holding up fairly well in the mountains but he was supposed to smash it today. Instead he lost it the rider of Rohan, who is also riding for GC mind you (but arguably has had more reserves after sunday).
Pozzovivo is mostly an also-ran in the Giro although that is mostly down to bad luck in the past. It's highly deserved that he gets a podium one of these days. Pinot is certainly worse than last year, he is not even attacking as much as he used to against Nairito and Nibs. Lopez not in peak shape either, plus ridiculous bike handling skills.
The only thing that's remarkable is that Yates won 3 stages imo a la pedal, although his most impressive display was Zoncolan. However, time differences were rather limited in that regard. The rest he makes up with his cunegoesque racing and purito punch. Very excitng rider, imo.
Pinot looked strong in the first week imo. Was very good at Gran Sasso. Struggled on Zonc but was ok the next day then he had a bad day because of his inability to perform well the day after the rest day (Just look at the Stelvio stage last year, where he finished with Jungels, A. Yates, Mollema, Formolo and co. and lost more than 1 and a half minute to Nibali. On the next days he even looked the strongest, gapping everyone at Piancavallo and winning on Asiago.)
Edited by Forever the Best on 22-05-2018 19:27
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan' Gracias Alberto.
I'm not saying anyone is clean either, more like “innocent unless proven guilty” because we don't know so why make assumptions.
If they cheat or dope and it is proven, that is a different matter. Just like some riders got punished today, which is perfect no matter who they may be.
Tamijo wrote:
I'm not saying anyone is clean either, more like “innocent unless proven guilty” because we don't know so why make assumptions.
If they cheat or dope and it is proven, that is a different matter. Just like some riders got punished today, which is perfect no matter who they may be.
I agree and I think no-one here really said that their 100% sure that Yates or whoever is doped. Of course the principle of innocent until proven guilty stands, nevertheless it is absolutely fair and imo crucial to scrutinize perfomances and to ask questions. It cannot come to a point where mere doubt about a riders cleanness is perceived as an absolute condemnation.
Edited by StevenGreen on 22-05-2018 21:06
