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Vuelta a España 2017 - Week 2
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| Aquarius97 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 19:56
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Shonak wrote:
Only in the Vuelta a sprinter who wins 4 stages loses the points jersey to a climber 
Degenkolb won 5 in 2012 and still lose it to Valverde
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 10-09-2017 19:57
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
No, he is a champion, he fights for whatever is there to take, that is winners mentality. I stillhate SKY, but he is true fighter.
Define champion. Fighting for whatever there is to take is a sociopaths mentality, fighting for what's important and knowing when not to fight is more indicative of a champion in my humble opinion. Each to their own though 
I imagine if anyone asks the question, why, he won't understand...like I say, each to their own.
PCMDaily Velogames Has Been 2016 & 2017
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| matt17br |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:01
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The Vuelta is a bit weird when it comes to jerseys and point systems, like it doesn't even have a young rider jersey which is literally everywhere and it literally gives no benefits to sprinters that want to take part.
I get everyone hates sprinters yada yada, but there's no reason why they shouldn't have a jersey for themselves they have chances of winning...
Good on Froome for exploiting this poorly thought out system, and it's pretty disappointing that QuickStep didn't act out a tactic to stop him from doing so in the intermediate sprint. But something needs to change imo, the Vuelta provides for some nice racing but suffers from more organisational problems than both other GTs.
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:11
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Angliru was incredible. The athmospere, the weather, Contador's performance, it was trully epic seing the climb live. I did 12km's on foot, and I must say, it was the hardest thing ever in my life. It was just so hard. You think it's hard from the TV? It's even harder in person. When you enter the last 6km's, it took me and my friends about 45 minutes to 1 hour per kilometre. It was unveliable with the audience. When Alberto turned into the corner we were (around the 2.6km mark, right after the Death Curve) everyone started screaming "VENGA ALBERTO, VENGA" up the hill and got chills all over my body. Even dropped a tear or two. 
Incredible experience, recommend to anyone to try it. Spanish people really know how to put on a show and support all riders. |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:13
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matt17br wrote:
The Vuelta is a bit weird when it comes to jerseys and point systems, like it doesn't even have a young rider jersey which is literally everywhere and it literally gives no benefits to sprinters that want to take part.
I get everyone hates sprinters yada yada, but there's no reason why they shouldn't have a jersey for themselves they have chances of winning...
Good on Froome for exploiting this poorly thought out system, and it's pretty disappointing that QuickStep didn't act out a tactic to stop him from doing so in the intermediate sprint. But something needs to change imo, the Vuelta provides for some nice racing but suffers from more organisational problems than both other GTs.
The Combination classification is completely useless IMO
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| matt17br |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:15
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I'm not saying that the combination classification should be removed because I believe the Giro has a similar one which mostly goes unnoticed but gives no jersey.
But the white jersey should be reserved to young riders, please.
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:18
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More importantly they should go back to the old jersey colours
Amarillo for the race leader and the fish jersey for the points leader.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
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matt17br wrote:
I'm not saying that the combination classification should be removed because I believe the Giro has a similar one which mostly goes unnoticed but gives no jersey.
But the white jersey should be reserved to young riders, please.
In the modern days the combination classification is pretty much obsolete. Perhaps the organizers want the top riders to be more active in the mountain and hilly stages rather than being passive. In the Tour and Giro the GC riders are letting in most stages someone from a breakway group to either win the stage or collect points for the KOM classification.
It is rare for a rider to win GC and secondary classification in the Giro or Tour. I think 2015 was the year when Froome won both GC an KOM.
I'll make later a tables "What if there was combination classification in Giro d'Italia and Tour de France". While it may seem not to be a dealbreaker (as I've said this classification is obsolete nowdays) it's fun to theorize.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:24
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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Miguel98 wrote:
Angliru was incredible. The athmospere, the weather, Contador's performance, it was trully epic seing the climb live. I did 12km's on foot, and I must say, it was the hardest thing ever in my life. It was just so hard. You think it's hard from the TV? It's even harder in person. When you enter the last 6km's, it took me and my friends about 45 minutes to 1 hour per kilometre. It was unveliable with the audience. When Alberto turned into the corner we were (around the 2.6km mark, right after the Death Curve) everyone started screaming "VENGA ALBERTO, VENGA" up the hill and got chills all over my body. Even dropped a tear or two.
Incredible experience, recommend to anyone to try it. Spanish people really know how to put on a show and support all riders.
Sounds amazing and even better than my Ventoux experience last year. Glad for you and your friends to be there at the Angliru and that you had such a great time, despite the hard effort to get up there  It's true, the joy of the people at the sideline was so obvious and charming, I saw a couple hugging each other when they saw Contador was leading. The fans really showed that this was a special day to all of them and a last great gift of Contador to them.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Kalach |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:30
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Guys check Oleg Tinkov tweets. Again trashing Contador @albertocontador should buy something to @chrisfroome who genearously let him win stage, after disastrous Vuelta for Spain. But he is cheap
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:33
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Here's how the Combination classification would have looked like in Tour de France
Spoiler | RANK | RIDER | GC | POINTS | KOM | TOTAL | | 1 | FROOME CHRISTOPHER | 1 | 8 | 5 | 14 | | 2 | BARGUIL WARREN | 10 | 11 | 1 | 22 | | 3 | BARDET ROMAIN | 3 | 14 | 6 | 23 | | 4 | URAN RIGOBERTO | 2 | 9 | 13 | 24 | | 5 | MARTIN DANIEL | 6 | 10 | 11 | 27 | | 6 | LANDA MIKEL | 4 | 22 | 7 | 33 | | 7 | ARU FABIO | 5 | 16 | 15 | 36 | | 8 | GALLOPIN TONY | 21 | 12 | 14 | 47 | | 9 | CONTADOR ALBERTO | 9 | 30 | 9 | 48 | | 10 | MOLLEMA BAUKE | 17 | 24 | 8 | 49 |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:39
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The jerseys are part of the charm with the Vuelta. Who even has a classification combinada? No one besides the Vuelta and thats great. There's no point in making the jerseys equal in the different races, as I said, part of the charm.
The classification punto is a jersey for the most consistent rider and again, no need to guarantee a sprinter to win it like the Tour does. Trentin was close to winning it with 3-4 sprinter stages, in a year with 5-7 stages it obviously becomes a different ballgame. Everyone has a chance as long as your are good enough. |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:51
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| Shonak |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:54
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Hahaha <3 Sooo sweet
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:54
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Posts: 5075
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Aquarius97 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Only in the Vuelta a sprinter who wins 4 stages loses the points jersey to a climber
Degenkolb won 5 in 2012 and still lose it to Valverde
Its not just the Vuelta. Cav won 6 stages and 5 in in 09 and 10 and didn't win either year, so.. but he obviously didnt lose to a climber altho Hushovd tried to be one in 09 |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 10-09-2017 20:58
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Riis123 wrote:
Aquarius97 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Only in the Vuelta a sprinter who wins 4 stages loses the points jersey to a climber
Degenkolb won 5 in 2012 and still lose it to Valverde
Its not just the Vuelta. Cav won 6 stages and 5 in in 09 and 10 and didn't win either year, so.. but he obviously didnt lose to a climber altho Hushovd tried to be one in 09
The simple explaination is that the terrain of the Vuelta as well as its classification structure favors more GC riders in the points standings.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 10-09-2017 21:02
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Riis123 wrote:
The jerseys are part of the charm with the Vuelta. Who even has a classification combinada? No one besides the Vuelta and thats great. There's no point in making the jerseys equal in the different races, as I said, part of the charm.
I respectfully disagree completely. Being different is not always 'part of the charm', especially if you're just sticking with outdated traditions that have mostly no point. I'm watching the Vuelta because it generally provides for exciting racing and brutal climbs. I don't give a shit about no combination jersey...
It's 2017, every race has a young rider jersey and the Vuelta has no actual reason to be different. They can keep their combinada thingy if it doesn't occupy the youth's place. I kinda get its point, but really whoever wins it has to have a great positioning in the GC because of how poorly these classifications are structured.
The classification punto is a jersey for the most consistent rider and again, no need to guarantee a sprinter to win it like the Tour does. Trentin was close to winning it with 3-4 sprinter stages, in a year with 5-7 stages it obviously becomes a different ballgame. Everyone has a chance as long as your are good enough.
I also don't understand your obsession with this irrational sprinters' hate, but I guess everyone on Daily kinda has to warrant that when having a discussion with you about this sort of stuff.
Trentin is not even a pure sprinter, he went for breaks and the profiles of his 4 stage wins are quite varied, and yet you'd rather see Froome win it than him. He won every single sprint stage bar one which was won by a late attack and where he still won the bunch sprint, how does that it not guarantee him the green jersey? It was just as ridiculous when it happened to Degenkolb.
Different jerseys are there to be awarded to different sorts of riders, but in the Vuelta you just need to be a consistent climber and you can win 4 of them. It doesn't happen in any other race, none. This is not part of the charm either.
Its not just the Vuelta. Cav won 6 stages and 5 in in 09 and 10 and didn't win either year, so..
Hushovd did what Sagan's done regularly in the last 4-5 years. He had one goal which was to win the green jersey, and since the points hierarchy of the Tour at least is kind of thought out, he was able to take it home despite of Cav's complete domination in pure sprints. You didn't see Contador winning it even though he was far and away the best climber that year...
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 21:03
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Posts: 5075
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ivaneurope wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Aquarius97 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Only in the Vuelta a sprinter who wins 4 stages loses the points jersey to a climber
Degenkolb won 5 in 2012 and still lose it to Valverde
Its not just the Vuelta. Cav won 6 stages and 5 in in 09 and 10 and didn't win either year, so.. but he obviously didnt lose to a climber altho Hushovd tried to be one in 09
The simple explaination is that the terrain of the Vuelta as well as its classification structure favors more GC riders in the points standings.
And lets celebrate that - its a lot better than 10 sprint stages like this years travesty in France. I can live with a GC-rider winning that competition as long as we get some good bike racing to look at |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 10-09-2017 21:09
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matt17br wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
The jerseys are part of the charm with the Vuelta. Who even has a classification combinada? No one besides the Vuelta and thats great. There's no point in making the jerseys equal in the different races, as I said, part of the charm.
I respectfully disagree completely. Being different is not always 'part of the charm', especially if you're just sticking with outdated traditions that have mostly no point. I'm watching the Vuelta because it generally provides for exciting racing and brutal climbs. I don't give a shit about no combination jersey...
It's 2017, every race has a young rider jersey and the Vuelta has no actual reason to be different. They can keep their combinada thingy if it doesn't occupy the youth's place. I kinda get its point, but really whoever wins it has to have a great positioning in the GC because of how poorly these classifications are structured.
The classification punto is a jersey for the most consistent rider and again, no need to guarantee a sprinter to win it like the Tour does. Trentin was close to winning it with 3-4 sprinter stages, in a year with 5-7 stages it obviously becomes a different ballgame. Everyone has a chance as long as your are good enough.
I also don't understand your obsession with this irrational sprinters' hate, but I guess everyone on Daily kinda has to warrant that when having a discussion with you about this sort of stuff.
Trentin is not even a pure sprinter, he went for breaks and the profiles of his 4 stage wins are quite varied, and yet you'd rather see Froome win it than him. He won every single sprint stage bar one which was won by a late attack and where he still won the bunch sprint, how does that it not guarantee him the green jersey? It was just as ridiculous when it happened to Degenkolb.
Different jerseys are there to be awarded to different sorts of riders, but in the Vuelta you just need to be a consistent climber and you can win 4 of them. It doesn't happen in any other race, none. This is not part of the charm either.
Its not just the Vuelta. Cav won 6 stages and 5 in in 09 and 10 and didn't win either year, so..
Hushovd did what Sagan's done regularly in the last 4-5 years. He had one goal which was to win the green jersey, and since the points hierarchy of the Tour at least is kind of thought out, he was able to take it home despite of Cav's complete domination in pure sprints. You didn't see Contador winning it even though he was far and away the best climber that year...
Ey matt, you dislike me to the point where theres no point in engaging in any kind of discussion with you. Aint enjoyable when all you do is replying with that aggressive style of yours to whatever I say. You do really hate me, don't you? So lets not just go down that road.
But it still surprises me you are able to deduct from my post that I irrationally hate sprinters. I guess we all see what we want to sometimes. |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 10-09-2017 21:11
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Classics Specialist
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matt17br wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
The jerseys are part of the charm with the Vuelta. Who even has a classification combinada? No one besides the Vuelta and thats great. There's no point in making the jerseys equal in the different races, as I said, part of the charm.
I respectfully disagree completely. Being different is not always 'part of the charm', especially if you're just sticking with outdated traditions that have mostly no point. I'm watching the Vuelta because it generally provides for exciting racing and brutal climbs. I don't give a shit about no combination jersey...
It's 2017, every race has a young rider jersey and the Vuelta has no actual reason to be different. They can keep their combinada thingy if it doesn't occupy the youth's place. I kinda get its point, but really whoever wins it has to have a great positioning in the GC because of how poorly these classifications are structured.
The classification punto is a jersey for the most consistent rider and again, no need to guarantee a sprinter to win it like the Tour does. Trentin was close to winning it with 3-4 sprinter stages, in a year with 5-7 stages it obviously becomes a different ballgame. Everyone has a chance as long as your are good enough.
I also don't understand your obsession with this irrational sprinters' hate, but I guess everyone on Daily kinda has to warrant that when having a discussion with you about this sort of stuff.
Trentin is not even a pure sprinter, he went for breaks and the profiles of his 4 stage wins are quite varied, and yet you'd rather see Froome win it than him. He won every single sprint stage bar one which was won by a late attack and where he still won the bunch sprint, how does that it not guarantee him the green jersey? It was just as ridiculous when it happened to Degenkolb.
Different jerseys are there to be awarded to different sorts of riders, but in the Vuelta you just need to be a consistent climber and you can win 4 of them. It doesn't happen in any other race, none. This is not part of the charm either.
Its not just the Vuelta. Cav won 6 stages and 5 in in 09 and 10 and didn't win either year, so..
Hushovd did what Sagan's done regularly in the last 4-5 years. He had one goal which was to win the green jersey, and since the points hierarchy of the Tour at least is kind of thought out, he was able to take it home despite of Cav's complete domination in pure sprints. You didn't see Contador winning it even though he was far and away the best climber that year...
One thing: Trentin and Villella were OTL yesterday, so they should have been kicked out of the race.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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