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PCM.daily Stats Discussion
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 30-08-2017 17:09
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Free Agent
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AiZaK wrote:
Gianni Moscon in Mountain??? What do you think about him??? 74? 75?
In my opinion, 73 is enough to drop tired riders. This is the first real mountain stage of the Vuelta, 75 or even 74 seem to be too much according to only one stage. In a good day, a rider could easily reach 76-77 MO with 73 MO, and Moscon is also helped by his HIL and his secondary caracteristics. Do not forget that the Vuelta is the last Grand Tour of the season, and that Moscon, in such circumstances, does not need more than 73 MO to do what he has done today. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 30-08-2017 19:55
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Sprinter
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I've put Moscon to 73 mtn for now bearing in mind that despite not having a high hill at 74 he does have a big res of 77. The best way to measure him is against Kwiat who has 75 mtn, a very high hill and res. High res is the key for these type of riders to enable them to keep it going for a long time. If Moscon of course continues this and does a Kwiat for the rest of the Vuelta then 74 is easily possible as well as looking at increasing his hill as well.
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 31-08-2017 09:53
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Free Agent
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 Jonas Gregaard Wilsly (Riwal) deserves more than 66 MO with his Tour de l'Avenir. He was Eg's first lieutenant, and without his failure in Les Saisies, he would be in the top 10. 68 MO is enough.
Niklas Eg (Veloconcept) showed a great regularity during this Tour de l'Avenir. He deserves something like 70 MO.
 Pierpaolo Ficara (Amore & Vita) could have 71 MO. He finished with Zoidl and Hirt at the Pro Ötstaler 5500.
 Gavin Mannion (UHC) deserves 72 MO in my opinion. He was one of the strongest riders during the Tour of Utah, better than Sepp Kuss for example, who already has 72 MO.
Brent Bookwalter (BMC) deserves more than 68 ACC, something like 72 or even 73. He was impressive at Snowbasin Resort or Salt Lake City.
Elia Viviany (Sky) deserves at least 79 SP in my opinion. Even if he is not the most regular sprinter, he is certainly one of the best sprinters of the moment. At Cyclassics Hamburg or Bretagne Classic, he showed his real capacities, and I think that 78 SP/80 ACC is too low according to what he has done recently.
 Herman Dahl (Sparebanken) deserves something like 70 SP. He was able to beat Maris Bogdanovics at the Baltic Chain Tour.
I hesitate about  Maris Bogdanovics. I don't know if his season could justify a 71 SP, but I think that 70 SP/70 ACC is a bit low for him. |
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| Naxela |
Posted on 31-08-2017 10:12
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Stagiare
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I would not raised Viviani's 78/80, He could still take some classics wins in races like Scheldeprijs, Bretagne and Hamburg with improved secondary stats in FLAT, HILL AND STA. I feel he deserves 71 HIL after bretagne and San Remo at least.
If anything raise his Acc one up.
New York Knicks - Bardiani CFS - AG2R - Millwall FC - Le Havre AC
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-09-2017 12:44
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
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At the moment Viviani will stay 78/80-81 because not so long ago I raised him to 79 sprint and then he stopped performing! I think raised flat, res, sta and hill have been ok for him. He's the fastest of the Italian sprinters imo and if he continues this form into next season then will be more deserving of a 79
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 02-09-2017 05:52
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Protected Rider
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AiZaK wrote:
Gianni Moscon in Mountain??? What do you think about him??? 74? 75?
78 |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 02-09-2017 08:24
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Directeur Sportif
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83
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 02-09-2017 08:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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Please. This is insulting to Moscon.
Come up with a real stat for once. |
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 02-09-2017 08:37
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Team Leader
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Ian Butler wrote:
Please. This is insulting to Moscon.
Come up with a real stat for once.
I think Matt was suggesting 83 mo but with awesome back-ups like 85 res, rec sta, acc and 84 flat and hill. The same way Gilbert is given low cobble and awesome back-ups and Sagan is given low (although way too high) sprint. 
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 14:35
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 02-09-2017 09:41
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Moscon is Froome`s best helper in Vuelta, Poels has 79 and Nieve 78... |
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 02-09-2017 10:04
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Moscon like Eddy
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 02-09-2017 13:35
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Maybe an upgrade for Trentin?
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 02-09-2017 14:07
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Currently, I see him with 77 FL/76 SP/76 ACC/77 END/78 RES/75 REC/73 HIL/76 FTR.
In my opinion, it is enough. Even if Trentin is impressive now with his three victories, do not forget that his opponents are not as strong as him.
Who are these opponents ?
During the fourth stage, it is mainly Lobato, who has 76 SP/77 ACC but lower secondary capacities. Lobato launched his sprint far from the line, but was able to compete with Trentin. After the third stage, a hard one, Trentin would have a little advantage on Lobato.
During the tenth stage, it is Rojas. Trentin is able to beat him by sprinting (Rojas is only 73 SP/74 ACC). Rojas was better than him in the Collado Bermejo, and tried to drop him with his 71 MO/76 HIL. He tried again during the downhill. He has also lower secondary capacities.
During the thirteenth stage, it is... well, Moscon finished second in this difficult final.
Trentin is a regular rider, but what he has done is not as impressive as what he did during 2013's Tour de France for example.
I could agree with a 73→74 HIL upgrade, and maybe a 76→77 DH one. And I also propose something like 74-75 FTR for Rojas with a 74-75 DH.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 02-09-2017 21:12
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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Aldroj's stats for Trentin are more or less exactly as they are in the DB currently and always worth remembering (even though most cycling fans will know this well) is that the Vuelta always has a very weak sprint field so a 76 sprinter is very capable of winning stages.
Again for somebody like Trentin RES is the key and he has a high RES of 78 which will make possible imo the ability to challenge better climbers by a few points if he were in a breakaway like he did the other day against Rojas.
As for Moscon forget 78 mtn etc as this is a big RES rider like Kwiat that will perform way above his 73 mtn that he currently has and if Kwiat has 75 mtn then Moscon will probably get around 74 at the end of the Vuelta, remember his high flat and RES will make him worth like 3 points more. If though he were to finish super high on a stage like Angliru then I'll change my planning for him!
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| bassiii |
Posted on 02-09-2017 21:38
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I'd give him 75 mo 75 hi |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 02-09-2017 21:57
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I think Trentin with Hill 73/74 Spr 76/77 its enough |
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 02-09-2017 22:19
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Aldroj's stats for Trentin are more or less exactly as they are in the DB currently and always worth remembering (even though most cycling fans will know this well) is that the Vuelta always has a very weak sprint field so a 76 sprinter is very capable of winning stages.
I was talking about spreadsheet's stats, so it's normal. 
I would also add that there are imo two sprinters still able to beat Trentin : Lobato and Cort. They both have 76 SP/77 ACC, and they could surprise him by lauching far from the line (like Lobato's sprint during stage 4). The gap between these riders is quite small, and Trentin's secondary caracteristics finally give him an advantage on them.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 02-09-2017 22:29
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And Richard Carapaz??? Mountain 76?? |
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| AustrianChamp |
Posted on 03-09-2017 14:38
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Konrad, Preidler ?? both little upranks in mo, preidler a little bit in tt (14th/7th in giro tt's) |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 03-09-2017 15:15
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And Jack Haig??? Mountain 75???
And Pedrero??? Mountain 73???
Edited by AiZaK on 03-09-2017 15:33
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