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News in October
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 19-10-2016 09:41
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I guess ASO just don't want another 7 year long list of editions without a winner, so they make it a bit harder for Sky.
Basides, Formula 1 changes their rules every year to stop the best rider from winning again, so it's not really a unique thing.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 09:47
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Ollfardh wrote:
Basides, Formula 1 changes their rules every year to stop the best rider from winning again, so it's not really a unique thing.
And every year F1 gets criticised or ruining the sport and slowly removing all aspects of competitive racing. Which is effectively what this TdF route is doing.
They are limiting Skys chances by reducing the possibility of any real racing taking place. Yes they will reduce the time gaps. But they are doing that by reducing the opportunities for riders to get time gaps. How can that be more exciting?
F1 is changed each ear to stop one team/driver dominating. But every year it gets more boring to watch.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| the_hoyle |
Posted on 19-10-2016 10:17
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ringo182 wrote:
They are limiting Skys chances by reducing the possibility of any real racing taking place. Yes they will reduce the time gaps. But they are doing that by reducing the opportunities for riders to get time gaps.
No they are reducing Sky's chances of riding tempo and reducing the entertainment of the race to zero. It will be more attacking racing and may be force Sky to do more than ride to a set number of watts all stage.
Smaller time gaps will be more entertaining, as you will never know how the race could swing on one stage to another, and will force riders to response rather than knowing that they can let someone go as they have a large gap on them
.: Manager of :.
.: My Awards :.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 10:29
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the_hoyle wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
They are limiting Skys chances by reducing the possibility of any real racing taking place. Yes they will reduce the time gaps. But they are doing that by reducing the opportunities for riders to get time gaps.
No they are reducing Sky's chances of riding tempo and reducing the entertainment of the race to zero. It will be more attacking racing and may be force Sky to do more than ride to a set number of watts all stage.
Smaller time gaps will be more entertaining, as you will never know how the race could swing on one stage to another, and will force riders to response rather than knowing that they can let someone go as they have a large gap on them
I guess. But equally if riders know they can't get any real time gaps it could lead to stages of follow the leader and then sprint for the last km.
My main issue is the lack of mountain top finishes/stages. A grand tour should have at least 3 or 4 real mountain top finishes and at least 8/9 medium to high mountain stages. 6 Mountain stages is way too low and only 2 mountain top finishes is just plain wrong in my opinion.
The truly iconic TdF stages take place in the high mountains. This route provides very little chance of producing any iconic stages.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 11:21
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the_hoyle wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
They are limiting Skys chances by reducing the possibility of any real racing taking place. Yes they will reduce the time gaps. But they are doing that by reducing the opportunities for riders to get time gaps.
No they are reducing Sky's chances of riding tempo and reducing the entertainment of the race to zero. It will be more attacking racing and may be force Sky to do more than ride to a set number of watts all stage.
Smaller time gaps will be more entertaining, as you will never know how the race could swing on one stage to another, and will force riders to response rather than knowing that they can let someone go as they have a large gap on them
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the idea behind shite routes like this one. They are basically limiting the difficulties, making it more easy, be it hard mountain stages or long time trials, to at least give the impression that the race is closer and more open.
But thats what people want, apparently. Ugh.
Small gaps leads to conservative racing. The 2-4 kilometres mountaintop sprints. If you actually but people in real deficit, they will have to make it up. Unfortunately Quintana wasn't up to it last year, but that happens.
Edited by Riis123 on 19-10-2016 11:31
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-10-2016 11:25
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As much as i appreciate a good discussion, at this length can i suggest you move it to somewhere like the Race Routes Discussion or the Race Design Thread. Just so we don't end up flooding out the News with opinions again.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 08:55
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 11:28
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ringo182 wrote:
Well the lack of tt miles is obviously an attempt by the organisers to ensure Froome isn't given a 5 minute headstart over Quintana. I guess they're hoping the others can make it a proper competition right into the last week with less tt's.
Not sure I agree with organisers planning routes specifically to hinder particular riders. It's like them changing the rules of the points jersey to try to stop Sagan winning. If a rider is clearly the best of his generation then he deserves to win a number of times.
I know they want to make the race interesting but they can do that without intentionally planning a route to stop Froome. The inclusion of a cobbled/PR style stage is one thing they could do. Although after the carnage the last time they did that I think that's put them off for a while 
Yes, why do we want to watch one of the most epic stages in modern Tour history again. That stage was a bummer, right.
Froome crashend even before the cobbles due to an injured sustained beforehand, he couldn't even hold onto his bike in that weather anymore. So regardless he woulda been out. It basically gave us a perfect scenario with Contador 3 minutes down which he would expected to slowly gain back over the many difficulties that route had to provide (a good thing, that time gaps thing). Unfortunately, Contador crashed and robbed us all for potentially the best Tour since 2003, maybe even better. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 11:37
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Riis123 wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Well the lack of tt miles is obviously an attempt by the organisers to ensure Froome isn't given a 5 minute headstart over Quintana. I guess they're hoping the others can make it a proper competition right into the last week with less tt's.
Not sure I agree with organisers planning routes specifically to hinder particular riders. It's like them changing the rules of the points jersey to try to stop Sagan winning. If a rider is clearly the best of his generation then he deserves to win a number of times.
I know they want to make the race interesting but they can do that without intentionally planning a route to stop Froome. The inclusion of a cobbled/PR style stage is one thing they could do. Although after the carnage the last time they did that I think that's put them off for a while
Yes, why do we want to watch one of the most epic stages in modern Tour history again. That stage was a bummer, right.
Froome crashend even before the cobbles due to an injured sustained beforehand, he couldn't even hold onto his bike in that weather anymore. So regardless he woulda been out. It basically gave us a perfect scenario with Contador 3 minutes down which he would expected to slowly gain back over the many difficulties that route had to provide (a good thing, that time gaps thing). Unfortunately, Contador crashed and robbed us all for potentially the best Tour since 2003, maybe even better.
Again, I never said I didn't want a cobbled stage. I actually said that is what they should do. I said the organisers will probably steer clear after what happened last time.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-10-2016 11:41
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Please 
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-10-2016 14:40
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the_hoyle wrote:
La Course goes from news of possible expansion last week to changing location from Paris to Col d'Izoard this week. The women's peleton will tackle the final 66km of the men's stage for 2017.
https://www.cyclin...d-in-2017/
It's taken me a bit of time to absorb and think this through. On the plus side a mountain showcase up the Izoard (and hopefully the Vars before hand) could be great as there really arn't enough of these in the WWT (or at all in Womens Cycling). The short nature of the race, 66/67km, should entice early action and little team control strategy.
But at only 66/67km, wtf! Frankly that's a disgraceful distance. The old La Course route was 89km, so they've shaved distance off. It also comes up short against the mountains offered by the Giro and by a good selection of the mountains outside the WWT. This is not progression. And for more insult, it's not even the full climb!
Even less so when compared against the strong rumors going around of a multi-day La Course. That would have been a big step forwards for Womens Cycling. I'm also concerned about what the coverage will be, as i assume it will be run the same day as the mens event. I fear the obvious that 99% of the day will be about the men, with the women a token "oh btw this happened as well today".
All you've got to do is look at various tweets from pro female cyclists to get an idea on how this is being recieved. Nicole Cook summing it up best with a throwback to 2008 when womens would race over the whole Izoard, then Montegenevre and finishing up to Sestriere.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 14:56
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I agree that shortening the climb is a bit ridiculous. I'm sure these women train up these mountains throughout the year so why can't they race up the full distance. They will obviously be slower than the men but there is absolutely no reason why they can't do the full distance. It's like knocking 5 miles off the women's marathon.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 19-10-2016 17:03
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I saw the profile, there was no Vars and it will indeed be on the same day.
No matter what its still better than the sprints we get to see in Paris and Madrid. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 19-10-2016 17:16
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Well something had to b done about the crashfest of previous years. A mountain could probably take away some of the hectic nature of the race away. The last couple of years have been bad PR for womens cycling as it have almost appeared that the winner is the one that managed to stay on her bike.
I would much prefer to have it on a restday though than far away when everyone looks to Paris.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 20-10-2016 01:00
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Garmin announced 6 riders that are coming over from the Drapac merger, more than I had thought. A couple are promising but it's mostly just filler PCT guys that are taking spots from current riders. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 20-10-2016 05:46
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Garmin announced 6 riders that are coming over from the Drapac merger, more than I had thought. A couple are promising but it's mostly just filler PCT guys that are taking spots from current riders.
Typical Vaughters - merges with a team for the equipment/sponsorship, take less than 10% of the squad and here you go. The same thing happened to Cervelo and Cannondale (the real one)
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-10-2016 08:21
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DAT STYLAH! 
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| jph27 |
Posted on 20-10-2016 08:23
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ivaneurope wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Garmin announced 6 riders that are coming over from the Drapac merger, more than I had thought. A couple are promising but it's mostly just filler PCT guys that are taking spots from current riders.
Typical Vaughters - merges with a team for the equipment/sponsorship, take less than 10% of the squad and here you go. The same thing happened to Cervelo and Cannondale (the real one)
In the case of Drapac, that's the right approach as they have very few riders actually suitable for the WT. Cervelo and Cannondale were slightly different, as most of their riders had signed elsewhere by the time the merger was fully confirmed. |
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| DiCyc |
Posted on 20-10-2016 08:51
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I an then already see what he will wear next year
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-10-2016 09:35
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It's a good thing he's the best cyclist in the world at the moment otherwise he'd look like a bit of a dick
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-10-2016 09:38
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You apparently dont know what the style is. 
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
