I'm not really sure how much other people are interested about race routes these days, as I keep hearing the old 'it's the riders who make the race, not the route' etc but personally I take great interest in the routes that cycling races take, particularly the 3 GTs; and I was just thinking the other day that there isn't really a thread to discuss this anywhere so here it is: a place to discuss routes, route balance, climbs you'd like to see used more often, route rumours, opinions on stages etc
A few simple questions:
- Did you think that the TdF route this year was good, and if so why (apart from obvious cobbles)?
- The old 'Which GT route was the best?'
- Generally speaking, which race has the better routes year-on-year, the Tour, the Giro or the Vuelta?
I'd like to mention here that I think the Vuelta is getting unnecessarily much stick for the _____/ profile. As boring as it makes it, it can be very handy for the viewers, and I have absolutley no problem with it, as long as they balance it with a few "real" mountain stages.
It's so difficult to say, because people (at least me) are influenced by how each race is raced. Personally, the best GT I have seen is the 2010 Giro, but that's more because of how the race panned out, and maybe not the route itself. The Giro route with Crostis (2011?) was on paper pretty crazy, but never turned out to be the most exciting race.
I liked this years route in TdF though. A bit more Giro-style, with a lot of stages which are pretty open, and not too many transport stages. Also not the typical "1 huge mountain 70km before the finish and then flat" stages.
First week was generally fine I feel, especially since there only were 4 real stages for the sprinters. I would have liked to see a prologue though as there wasnt any last year as well. Another thing to point out here is the lack of TTT. I dont wanna go back to the 60-km TT every year thing, but I feel like the TTs the last couple of years have been too short. I would love to see a 40 km TT as in 2009 (which I actually saw live ). Pretty balanced this year, but the dream scanario for me had been a 10 km prologue, a 40 km TT, a sorta hilly stage/cobbled whatever and at least 3 for the sprinters.
Second week was great. I loved all 3 stage in the Vosgues from a route-perspective: a teaser, a classic tour stage in the Vosgues and the final. That was great route making imo. Then the 2 transitions stage, the one Tony won was good designed I feel like (maybe because the bunch was interested which made it interesting). The Alps were classic-Tour de France, 2 mountain stages in the first of the Alps/Pyrenees and 3 in the ladder. Fine stages and not TOO demanding, allthough they tend to like to make one of those stages finish downhill. It made for a better race IMO to let the finish uphill.
Third week was fine as well. The classic stage going into the Pyrenees and then 2 hard stages with summit finishes, I especially liked that 2. one (route wise). Nothing really to point I fell, although I would have like a stage where they would have been mountains right from the start.
I think this year had a little bit too less TT-kilometres. I dont wanna go back to the early 2000s, but around 60-70 would have been fine. Also, I miss the Massif Central and would like to see Mende or just any other stage with hard climbs in the finale.
Climbs I would have liked to see/wanna see in the future: Plateau de Beille, Luz Ardiden, Col du Granon, Col de la Madeleine and Galibier from the hard side.
About routes generally: I like to study the GTs, especially the Tour. I dont care that much for the lesser races (not World Tour races), especially since I often plan to go to France and watch it
Dippofix wrote:
I'd like to mention here that I think the Vuelta is getting unnecessarily much stick for the _____/ profile. As boring as it makes it, it can be very handy for the viewers, and I have absolutley no problem with it, as long as they balance it with a few "real" mountain stages.
The balance of _____/ with _/\/\/ is what I object to mainly, it's alright to have say a couple of the former but not as many as they have been having recently. Last year there were about 4 or 5 'Unipublic' stages compared with probably only 2 big multi-mountain stages.
My main issue with the Vuelta in general is that they seem to operate far too often on an 'Oh this idea worked this year when we tried it, so it will work if we bring it back next year', this leads to climbs like Pena Cabarga etc just being repeated year on year and there are so many climbs that the Vuelta hasn't visited yet - I think I read somewhere that since about 1980 or something the Vuelta has used half the number of climbs worthy of 1st category or above than the Giro!
Riis123 wrote:
About the route this year:
First week was generally fine I feel, especially since there only were 4 real stages for the sprinters. I would have liked to see a prologue though as there wasnt any last year as well. Another thing to point out here is the lack of TTT. I dont wanna go back to the 60-km TT every year thing, but I feel like the TTs the last couple of years have been too short. I would love to see a 40 km TT as in 2009 (which I actually saw live ). Pretty balanced this year, but the dream scanario for me had been a 10 km prologue, a 40 km TT, a sorta hilly stage/cobbled whatever and at least 3 for the sprinters.
Second week was great. I loved all 3 stage in the Vosgues from a route-perspective: a teaser, a classic tour stage in the Vosgues and the final. That was great route making imo. Then the 2 transitions stage, the one Tony won was good designed I feel like (maybe because the bunch was interested which made it interesting). The Alps were classic-Tour de France, 2 mountain stages in the first of the Alps/Pyrenees and 3 in the ladder. Fine stages and not TOO demanding, allthough they tend to like to make one of those stages finish downhill. It made for a better race IMO to let the finish uphill.
Third week was fine as well. The classic stage going into the Pyrenees and then 2 hard stages with summit finishes, I especially liked that 2. one (route wise). Nothing really to point I fell, although I would have like a stage where they would have been mountains right from the start.
I think this year had a little bit too less TT-kilometres. I dont wanna go back to the early 2000s, but around 60-70 would have been fine. Also, I miss the Massif Central and would like to see Mende or just any other stage with hard climbs in the finale.
Climbs I would have liked to see/wanna see in the future: Plateau de Beille, Luz Ardiden, Col du Granon, Col de la Madeleine and Galibier from the hard side.
About routes generally: I like to study the GTs, especially the Tour. I dont care that much for the lesser races (not World Tour races), especially since I often plan to go to France and watch it
Agree with pretty much all you said (apart from that atrocious stage 18) that this year's route was pretty good, best for a while I think (although last year wasn't too bad to be fair, it was just that people expected something massive and groundbreaking for the 100th Tour) although I was initially sceptical about it, what with not having a TT until the penultimate day. The Vosges in particular were great, it was really nice to see three stages there, especially the LPDBF one which shows there are great stages to be had outside the Alps and the Pyrenees.
I think we need more uphill sprints in next years Tour, so people cannot laugh on Sagan not winning any stage.
In more serious manner, i think the Tour 2014 route was almost perfect. I would add TTT and one or two uphill sprints, which are in my oppinion pretty enjoyable to watch in comparsion to Kittel just being brought to the line by his train and enormous sprint.
I would also cancel all the starts in different ccountries like Netherlands or Britain, but that will never happan, as it is about money. So...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 29-07-2014 06:30
In my opinion, the TT should have been ealrier in the race, not on the penultimate day, so that the cyclists don`t always ride with the TT in their minds and not giving 100%.
I actually think the tour start in Britain was pretty successful, and the Tour was almost perfect. Agree with the need/want of a TTT, and at least one uphill sprint. Also agree about the riders making the route. I have a feeling that if Froome and Contador were still in the race, it would not have been as good as it was.Saying that, the first week was one of the best i have ever seen!
After the grand depart (sorry, grande partenza, still in Tour mode ) was announced a while ago, more rumours are beginning to surface.
Grande Partenza 2015.
- Strong rumours of a finish on the Abetone on stage 4 after the 3 confirmed Ligurian stages - of which stage 3 looks like it could be rather interesting from the map - Cinque Terre followed by what looks like the climb of Biassa; could potentially be an interesting first week GC wise!
- Sestriere as last mountain stage aka 2011, and likely to be preceded by Fauniera-Santuario Santa Anna di Vinadio (as in the cancelled stage in 2001)
- Also, since they are looking to commemorate the war in some way (it started in 1915 for the Italians... late as always ), it has been rumoured there will be a stage finish at Monte Piana! (source:https://www.giroditaliaciclismo.com/gi...-percorso/)
Wow, these climbs seems frightening, do you have the exact lengh and gradients on those? If its true it should be very interesting to see the GC-contenders duke it out from far (Mortirolo, Finestre and possibly this stage). And yeah, also read its highly likely they go to Tuscan and some city that Nibali has spent 12 years in to honour him.
Just gonna up this thread. Just heard danish commentators talking about Alpe d' Huez, Mont Ventoux and Restefond. I assume they want to finish on Alp and Ventoux and Restefound would be the highest finish in history, so that makes it 3 HC finishes.
Riis123 wrote:
Just gonna up this thread. Just heard danish commentators talking about Alpe d' Huez, Mont Ventoux and Restefond. I assume they want to finish on Alp and Ventoux and Restefound would be the highest finish in history, so that makes it 3 HC finishes.
Restefond/Cime de la Bonnette seems to be quite likely and probably Alpe too, not sure about Ventoux though?
Anway reason I came to this thread was because I saw this, posted a couple of days ago on the Giro facebook page. I'm 99.9% sure this is a picture of the Brenta Dolomites above Madonna Campiglio, a climb made famous by the exploits of Pantani 15 years ago. Pretty disappointing tbh as it's a very weak finish at about 5-6% or so, and it also looks like we're carrying on on the Pantani memorial bandwagon, following Oropa and Montecampione last year.
Also rumours of Kronplatz MTF, which could be interesting; and rather less interestingly, of a Cervinia MTF. All will be revealed in less than a month though!
I see 8-9 stages for Degenkolb there and far less for Kittel, I wonder if he will try classics-Giro-Tour helper-WC like in 2013 again, especially with probably being top favourite for the WC.
Edited by cio93 on 06-10-2014 18:54
I just went over the Tour de France-route which surprisingly looks like the toughest route on paper. I only did count 5-6 sprint finishes, altho all the race profiles havent been released. That's stage 2 (the stage by the sea in NL) and stage 5, 6, 7 and the penultimate stage on Champs. There are possibly 1-2 more, but those stages are in and around the Massif Central and doesnt exactly look like pure sprint stages. Looks more like breaks to me, but without the profiles its hard to predict..
Even if there are 6-7, its not a whole lot. Really good job to sorta minimize the pure sprint stage, especially from the first week and forwards..
I'm not sure about Paris - Vasco, the only site that mentions it is: https://www.velowi...asco-.html but I'm not sure if they are talking about it or another race, but if so it's be released.
). Pretty balanced this year, but the dream scanario for me had been a 10 km prologue, a 40 km TT, a sorta hilly stage/cobbled whatever and at least 3 for the sprinters. 
