Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
Yes Valverde is a big champion to lose GTs, to lose World Championships and to lose Olympics. Only Quintana is bigger champion to lose, because Valverde can win world biggest wheelsucker race La Fleche Wallonne.
Edited by Arberg27 on 14-08-2016 11:19
Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
I haven't suggested he is the saviour of cycling tho. Just that I very much like and applaud to race La Vuelta.
What do you mean its not 'his' race? Obviously, its not 'his' race literally or whatever you are trying to imply, but its the race where he has achieved the most over the years, starting with a podium in 2003. He has performed insanely well (and consistently above all) in that race over the years) and is always turning up despite a hard programme prior to the race, especially this year where it was really surprising he chose to race it.
On the last part.. I don't think Valverde has an extremely dedicated fanbase. Other riders, such as Contador, has much more supporters fx who also for the most part are more dedicated (not necessarily on this forum, tho). Valverde is a rider who also have a fair amount of haters.
Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
I haven't suggested he is the saviour of cycling tho. Just that I very much like and applaud to race La Vuelta.
What do you mean its not 'his' race? Obviously, its not 'his' race literally or whatever you are trying to imply, but its the race where he has achieved the most over the years, starting with a podium in 2003. He has performed insanely well (and consistently above all) in that race over the years) and is always turning up despite a hard programme prior to the race, especially this year where it was really surprising he chose to race it.
On the last part.. I don't think Valverde has an extremely dedicated fanbase. Other riders, such as Contador, has much more supporters fx who also for the most part are more dedicated (not necessarily on this forum, tho). Valverde is a rider who also have a fair amount of haters.
For a valid reason, seems not to acknowledge he's a drugs cheat even now.
The sooner he goes the better. The fact he'll top 10 in 3 GTs in one year is probably not one to celebrate either, the guy is still on dope and cant ride without it
John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25
Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
I haven't suggested he is the saviour of cycling tho. Just that I very much like and applaud to race La Vuelta.
What do you mean its not 'his' race? Obviously, its not 'his' race literally or whatever you are trying to imply, but its the race where he has achieved the most over the years, starting with a podium in 2003. He has performed insanely well (and consistently above all) in that race over the years) and is always turning up despite a hard programme prior to the race, especially this year where it was really surprising he chose to race it.
On the last part.. I don't think Valverde has an extremely dedicated fanbase. Other riders, such as Contador, has much more supporters fx who also for the most part are more dedicated (not necessarily on this forum, tho). Valverde is a rider who also have a fair amount of haters.
For a valid reason, seems not to acknowledge he's a drugs cheat even now.
The sooner he goes the better. The fact he'll top 10 in 3 GTs in one year is probably not one to celebrate either, the guy is still on dope and cant ride without it
Like most of his competitors right?
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Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
I haven't suggested he is the saviour of cycling tho. Just that I very much like and applaud to race La Vuelta.
What do you mean its not 'his' race? Obviously, its not 'his' race literally or whatever you are trying to imply, but its the race where he has achieved the most over the years, starting with a podium in 2003. He has performed insanely well (and consistently above all) in that race over the years) and is always turning up despite a hard programme prior to the race, especially this year where it was really surprising he chose to race it.
On the last part.. I don't think Valverde has an extremely dedicated fanbase. Other riders, such as Contador, has much more supporters fx who also for the most part are more dedicated (not necessarily on this forum, tho). Valverde is a rider who also have a fair amount of haters.
For a valid reason, seems not to acknowledge he's a drugs cheat even now.
The sooner he goes the better. The fact he'll top 10 in 3 GTs in one year is probably not one to celebrate either, the guy is still on dope and cant ride without it
Why do you think I don't acknowledge he dopes? Obviously he does... as pretty much everyone else on that level.
Luxemburger wrote:
We have to see it this way, even for a doper it's a extremely hard program to race all 3 GTs in one year and then even finish them inside the top 10.
I don't necessarily think its overly hard to race 3 GTs a year just to finish, performing like Valverde has been on the other hand is.
I also don't think its fair a comment. We pretty much knows everyone who finish top-10 in a GT dopes, Valverde obviously does as well. I don't think he is better or worse just because he has served 2 years in the past.
Luxemburger wrote:
We have to see it this way, even for a doper it's a extremely hard program to race all 3 GTs in one year and then even finish them inside the top 10.
I don't necessarily think its overly hard to race 3 GTs a year just to finish, performing like Valverde has been on the other hand is.
I also don't think its fair a comment. We pretty much knows everyone who finish top-10 in a GT dopes, Valverde obviously does as well. I don't think he is better or worse just because he has served 2 years in the past.
The main issue I have with him is that he didn't admit to his doping when caught, I think that's a pretty low act which is why I have a real dislike for the guy (same with Contador), you stuff up then you own that but guess these guys don't think they did anything wrong.
Other than that I completely agree that finishing 3 GTs in a year is an achievement but nothing like the achievement of finishing 3 GTs and being competitive in each one of them which assuming some luck Valverde will do, it's impressive.
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Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
I haven't suggested he is the saviour of cycling tho. Just that I very much like and applaud to race La Vuelta.
What do you mean its not 'his' race? Obviously, its not 'his' race literally or whatever you are trying to imply, but its the race where he has achieved the most over the years, starting with a podium in 2003. He has performed insanely well (and consistently above all) in that race over the years) and is always turning up despite a hard programme prior to the race, especially this year where it was really surprising he chose to race it.
On the last part.. I don't think Valverde has an extremely dedicated fanbase. Other riders, such as Contador, has much more supporters fx who also for the most part are more dedicated (not necessarily on this forum, tho). Valverde is a rider who also have a fair amount of haters.
I guess it was a bit of an overreaction on my part and I acknowledge that you never said he was a saviour of cycling. The point I was trying to make is that I really don't like the way how everyone was being so negative about the Vuelta but that all changes when Valverde announces he's going to be there. One rider does not make a great race, particularly when it lasts three weeks and as you said, he is unlikely to be near his best.
He has done well at the Vuelta with great consistency, no doubt about that. However I'm not sure why it is so surprising to see him race it if - as you said - he "loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him", particularly since he's not coming off an injury as far as I'm aware. He's a Spanish GC rider who has already achieved a lot and will probably never again be able to perform to this level so it makes sense that he would want to ride the Vuelta anyway.
Just because Contador might have more fans than him, doesn't mean he's an unpopular rider (particularly on this forum). Every successful rider has their fair share of detractors too.
I don't necessarily think its overly hard to race 3 GTs a year just to finish
This is the part I really don't get. Yes, it could potentially be done without totally exhausting the rider, but is that really the case here? Most domestiques do a hell of a lot of hard work for limited or no glory, where as the stars have over a dozen people looking after them closely every step of the way.
It's not just that either, since Hansen has now completed 15 consecutive grand tours (including at least one with a serious injury for almost the full duration) as well as several smaller tours in each of those seasons which is an undoubtedly outstanding feat of mental and physical endurance.
Three top tens in a year is certainly a great achievement though which shouldn't be lost in this debate.
Shonak wrote:
Balaverde never disappoints, great to see him in his(!) race.
Its so great to see him honour his country's GT like this. Even if he won't be super, he still attends. He loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him!
Can't stress enough how much more impressive this is compared to Adam Hansen.
I'll admit there is some bias on my part here, but now you're both just getting carried away. I don't really want to start an argument here, but the Vuelta is certainly not "his" race and I can't see the comparison you're trying to make here between Hansen and Valverde. While I dislike Valverde for a couple of reasons, his performances at this year's Tour and Giro have been quite impressive. Still, that's no reason to suggest that he's the saviour of cycling or anything like that. He's just a freakishly good rider with an extremely dedicated fanbase.
I haven't suggested he is the saviour of cycling tho. Just that I very much like and applaud to race La Vuelta.
What do you mean its not 'his' race? Obviously, its not 'his' race literally or whatever you are trying to imply, but its the race where he has achieved the most over the years, starting with a podium in 2003. He has performed insanely well (and consistently above all) in that race over the years) and is always turning up despite a hard programme prior to the race, especially this year where it was really surprising he chose to race it.
On the last part.. I don't think Valverde has an extremely dedicated fanbase. Other riders, such as Contador, has much more supporters fx who also for the most part are more dedicated (not necessarily on this forum, tho). Valverde is a rider who also have a fair amount of haters.
I guess it was a bit of an overreaction on my part and I acknowledge that you never said he was a saviour of cycling. The point I was trying to make is that I really don't like the way how everyone was being so negative about the Vuelta but that all changes when Valverde announces he's going to be there. One rider does not make a great race, particularly when it lasts three weeks and as you said, he is unlikely to be near his best.
He has done well at the Vuelta with great consistency, no doubt about that. However I'm not sure why it is so surprising to see him race it if - as you said - he "loves La Vuelta and La Vuelta loves him", particularly since he's not coming off an injury as far as I'm aware. He's a Spanish GC rider who has already achieved a lot and will probably never again be able to perform to this level so it makes sense that he would want to ride the Vuelta anyway.
Just because Contador might have more fans than him, doesn't mean he's an unpopular rider (particularly on this forum). Every successful rider has their fair share of detractors too.
I don't necessarily think its overly hard to race 3 GTs a year just to finish
This is the part I really don't get. Yes, it could potentially be done without totally exhausting the rider, but is that really the case here? Most domestiques do a hell of a lot of hard work for limited or no glory, where as the stars have over a dozen people looking after them closely every step of the way.
It's not just that either, since Hansen has now completed 15 consecutive grand tours (including at least one with a serious injury for almost the full duration) as well as several smaller tours in each of those seasons which is an undoubtedly outstanding feat of mental and physical endurance.
Three top tens in a year is certainly a great achievement though which shouldn't be lost in this debate.
You don't like Valverde. Thats fair, but don't let it cloud your vision. You seem to read what you want to read....
Where 'have I been negative about the Vuelta and suddenly changed when Valverde attended'? I like the Vuelta, even tho the parcours are pretty poor. That doesn't change cause Valverde chooses to attend, but obviously - since he is my favourite rider - I like him to take part in the race. Thats natural, isn't it? Don't you like your favourite riders to race important races? Don't you feel joy when they perform well?
You don't think its surprising he chooses to ride his 5th GT in a row - OK, I do. Its not out of this world to race all 3 GTs as a domestique, but as a GT-contender, it really is. Even if its the Vuelta, his home race. I fully expected him to skip it hence my joy when he announced he would go.
As I said earlier, its obvious you really don't like Valverde, but as a fan of his, I shouldn't really feel the need to defend myself which I feel I do. Its also obvious you don't like me playing Hansen's achievements down since you are an Aussie, so lets stop it here
Miguel98 wrote:
"hris Froome will be the leader of Team Sky in La Vuelta with Mikel Landa, Boswell, Golas, Kennaugh, Knees, Kwiatkowski, Puccio and Konig"
Oh my fuckin' god, this team
? Half of the team is tired after a tough season and the other half is not world class. Do not understand why Froome and Landa are with. Maybe just part of training program to next year.
Contador wins like Horner, no doubt about it, because they haven't done anything all season.
@Riis I agree with you completely there, we've both had our say now. I never intended to attack you personally, so please don't take any of that the wrong way. The part about people's mood about the Vuelta changing wasn't actually aimed at you, just a general observation. For example, Luxemberger said earlier:
I'm afraid this years Vuelta will be evenly boring, even with Contador.
I've seen other people say similar things elsewhere too so the positive Valverde reaction seemed odd to me, that's all.
Back on topic now, I really hope we get a good TTT to kick off this year. Yes the course was bad last time, but neutralising the stage made for a very anti-climactic opening and wasn't really worth doing at all in the end IMO.
Miguel98 wrote:
"hris Froome will be the leader of Team Sky in La Vuelta with Mikel Landa, Boswell, Golas, Kennaugh, Knees, Kwiatkowski, Puccio and Konig"
Oh my fuckin' god, this team
Roche was meant to be there as well until he got bacterial pneumonia.
I'm afraid this years Vuelta will be evenly boring, even with Contador.
I've seen other people say similar things elsewhere too so the positive Valverde reaction seemed odd to me, that's all.
Being well with attacks from Contador and Froome, both will try to win and Contador actually have a chance now, that Froome has raced Tour and Olympics.
Yes Quintana and Valverde is as usual boring and happy with podiums and top10 and wheelsucker all the way to Madrid ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
The OBE squad for the amazing Esteban Chaves has been announced: Chaves - My pick for a top 3 and if he can go the whole way (be fit until stage 20) he is a good shot for the win. He'll be backed by: Simon Yates - Obviously after his ban he's been peaking for this race and his form shows through recently with his first pro win in the Ordiziako Klasika (1st), Clasica San Sebastian (7th and responded to lots of attacks, maybe too many) and Burgos (4th). Will be very very useful as a lieutenant and sneaky suspicion he'll do well individually too. Howson - Useful in the mountains (showed in Giro) and of course in the TTT Bewley - Good mate and mentor of Chaves and no surprise to see him here after great performances in last year's edition and this year's Giro. Good for TTT and flat stages/parts of stages, or early in mountain days Gerrans - Don't like him but obviously was always coming. Good use in hilly stages for Esteban. Cort - Sprint hope, good for tougher days and could come close to a stage similar to Ewan's, Stuyven's or Sbragli's last year. Good help in hilly-medium mountains days. Tuft - Legend, role similar to Bewley's but also road captain, I'd guess. Fantastic cool head and plenty of experience. Keukeleire - Will be a useful domestique for Cort as well but another good "pilot" rider for Chaves, if you will.
Finally, Haig will be interesting to follow in his first GT, big climbing prospect so should be of service in the first 1-2 weeks, maybe some breaks.
Pretty good team, obviously not quite the best climbing squad just yet but solid to give Chaves a good shot
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Miguel98 wrote:
"hris Froome will be the leader of Team Sky in La Vuelta with Mikel Landa, Boswell, Golas, Kennaugh, Knees, Kwiatkowski, Puccio and Konig"
Oh my fuckin' god, this team
? Half of the team is tired after a tough season and the other half is not world class. Do not understand why Froome and Landa are with. Maybe just part of training program to next year.
Contador wins like Horner, no doubt about it, because they haven't done anything all season.
Because being 3th (1 stage win) in Algarve, 2nd in Paris-Nice, 2nd in Volta a Cataluña, 1st (1 stage win) in Pais Vasco, 5th (1 stage win) in Dauphine, 1st in Vuelta a Burgos is anything
