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La Vuelta a España 2015 - Week 2
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 08-09-2015 22:34
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Scenes when Landa, Aru, Rosa and LLS attack on a climb and Dumoulin stays behind LottoNL setting pace 
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 08-09-2015 22:35
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The 7 Astana guys are still better than the 18 total riders of LottoNL and Alpecin anyway
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| Movistar |
Posted on 08-09-2015 22:51
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Domestique
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Spilak23 wrote:
The 7 Astana guys are still better than the 18 total riders of LottoNL and Alpecin anyway
Over/Under on how much Lotto-Jumbo offers Dumoulin for the 2017 season? |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 08-09-2015 22:58
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Only downside for me personally is they might make Bennett set tempo instead of go in breaks 
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 08-09-2015 23:05
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Spilak23 wrote:
Scenes when Landa, Aru, Rosa and LLS attack on a climb and Dumoulin stays behind LottoNL setting pace
which is totally different than the way he's been riding all week. probably the only thing Lotto can do for Dumoulin is making it so that Craddock doesn't need to pull of so early
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 02:48
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| Strydz |
Posted on 08-09-2015 23:42
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I don't get this, isn't it against the rules for a team to work for a rider on an opposing team? I get that teams form alliances during a race so it's hard to enforce but if a team comes out before a stage and openly states that it will do this then surely it's a blatant breaking of the rules.
Edited by Strydz on 08-09-2015 23:49
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| Strydz |
Posted on 09-09-2015 08:35
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Riis123 wrote:
Calm down, Lotto NL are an absolute disastrous team, even if they want to help, they arent capable of it anyways. No chance any NL-rider will be within the first 40 on a mountain anyway, they are just that bad
It's not the point if they are really capable of helping him in a meaningful way it's that teams are not meant to do this, look if it just "happened" during a stage then okay whatever but to announce it before the stages take place is pathetic.
Rule 12.1.040 (8.2)subsection 17.2 "Cheating, attempted cheating, collusion between riders of different teams." That carries a 200 CHF fine and 10 minute penalty.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 09-09-2015 09:34
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Can I just point out that week 3 started 2 days ago? 
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-09-2015 09:43
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I even mentioned there was no Week 3 thread in the news, people are just so focused on the amazing action!
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| OZrocker |
Posted on 09-09-2015 09:47
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I noticed that too Ollfardh, but didn't see much of a point in creating the thread now.
baseballlover312 wrote:
I agree that alliances are good on the road when you have a common goal.
But there is literally no reason within the bike race for LottoNL to ally with Giant. They flat out said they're helping him simply for him. It helps their team in no way within the actual racing to support him, except that they can get a Dutch GT winner who isn't even on their team or have any relation them.
I get there are other reasons, but this is different than a mock alliance made in crosswinds to get rid of a common GC foe. This is a mockery of sportsmanship and competition in cycling.
This is all true, but national pride does come into it. If they are in a position to help, I have a feeling the Dutch public (who are almost certainly the people LottoNL are trying to please with this move) would desperately love to have a local rider win a GT after going for so long without one. The major sponsors want the general public to like them, and what better way to do that by trying to ensure an historic victory for a countryman?
Maybe it should be outlawed, I'm not going to debate that. Personally I think if Orica-GreenEDGE had been in a position to help Cadel Evans win his first Tour de France, I would definitely have supported them even more as a result of them helping him, which suggests to me that this can work in LottoNL's favour.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 09-09-2015 10:09
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OZrocker wrote:
Maybe it should be outlawed, I'm not going to debate that. Personally I think if Orica-GreenEDGE had been in a position to help Cadel Evans win his first Tour de France, I would definitely have supported them even more as a result of them helping him, which suggests to me that this can work in LottoNL's favour.
Well Orica - Greenedge was in the position to help Porte during the Giro. And Porte got a 2 min penalty because of it. (On top of the time lost on the stage) for it.
They should penalise all cases or none.
(No dislikes just because you hate my opinion please, we've had the argument and the agreement was to agree to disagree and that we were each entitled to our own opinion).
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-09-2015 10:19
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It's a case of the UCI rulebook being just plain vague and hard to enforce.
Rule 12.1.040 (8.2)subsection 17.2 "Cheating, attempted cheating, collusion between riders of different teams." That carries a 200 CHF fine and 10 minute penalty.
Surely it's collusion to let/help/have more than one team working on the front to pull back the break? How many times have we seen old teammates/friends help a rider up a mountain? Using a team car to give a rider some help back to his group?
It litterally happens multiple times every day that teams/riders/whatever "collude" together to achieve a desired outcome for one or both parties. It just depends what you view as collusion.
But also note you can share bottles and food in a breakaway. If that isn't collusion i don't know what is. And this week in the womens world Velocio didn't enter a team in the Tour Ardeche but did have riders attending under mixed teams, and these riders then worked together to support Wiles in her bid to win, but were racing for different teams. As i say, literally happens every day in one form or other and the rules have to be open to allow that. So whether you like it or not, unless the commissaires take action then it must be legal so suck it up
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 09-09-2015 10:29
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TheManxMissile wrote:
But also note you can share bottles and food in a breakaway. If that isn't collusion i don't know what is.
There's a different rule that clearly allows sharing of food, drinks etc. This is to protect the health of the riders. For example in a grupetto there is one guy from one team without any teammates or a team car then this guy could suffer from dehydration if no one else gives him any water..
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-09-2015 10:43
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trekbmc wrote:
Well Orica - Greenedge was in the position to help Porte during the Giro. And Porte got a 2 min penalty because of it. (On top of the time lost on the stage) for it.
They should penalise all cases or none.
(No dislikes just because you hate my opinion please, we've had the argument and the agreement was to agree to disagree and that we were each entitled to our own opinion).
Rule 2.3.012 - .... The lending or exchanging of tubular tyres or bicycles and waiting for a rider who has been dropped or involved in an accident shall be permitted only amongst riders of the same team...
Not trying to be annoying but it's very simply stated in the rules
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| vismitananda |
Posted on 09-09-2015 15:19
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Domestique
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Will Tom D. Win today's TT? That is the question.
-Pain is temporary, Quitting lasts forever-
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| Strydz |
Posted on 09-09-2015 18:27
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TheManxMissile wrote:
It's a case of the UCI rulebook being just plain vague and hard to enforce.
Rule 12.1.040 (8.2)subsection 17.2 "Cheating, attempted cheating, collusion between riders of different teams." That carries a 200 CHF fine and 10 minute penalty.
Surely it's collusion to let/help/have more than one team working on the front to pull back the break? How many times have we seen old teammates/friends help a rider up a mountain? Using a team car to give a rider some help back to his group?
It litterally happens multiple times every day that teams/riders/whatever "collude" together to achieve a desired outcome for one or both parties. It just depends what you view as collusion.
But also note you can share bottles and food in a breakaway. If that isn't collusion i don't know what is. And this week in the womens world Velocio didn't enter a team in the Tour Ardeche but did have riders attending under mixed teams, and these riders then worked together to support Wiles in her bid to win, but were racing for different teams. As i say, literally happens every day in one form or other and the rules have to be open to allow that. So whether you like it or not, unless the commissaires take action then it must be legal so suck it up
Suck it up? Okay...
My issue isn't that a teams form an alliance on the road, I know that happens all the time and that's just how bike racing works. My issue is a team coming out prior to a stage announcing that that they will work for a rider on a opposing team, it doesn't make any sense why they would announce it, in this case it would be easy to enforce as they have stated there intention to do this. Guess in next years Tour all the French teams can come out and state that they will all work together to get a French winner of the race
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
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