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Le Tour de France 2015 | Stage 19: Modane / Alpe d' Huez
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:28
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Guido Mukk wrote:
Can we already say that Giro again has beaten TdF for good?
For me Tdf was as it is..but they clearly fucked up first week. It should be classic tour first week. We don't want to know tour winner after 4 stage. Let's keep that first week simple and for sprinters.
For me the giro been the better GT for the past few years ,and also the vuelta
Edited by deek12345 on 25-07-2015 12:41
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:30
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Wtf didn't even know pozzato was in this tdf  |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:36
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The Tour hasn't been interesting since basically Pantani. At least for me. I've never really liked Lance's domination not because I hate him as a cyclist but because it's really dumb. Since then nothing spectacular. Maybe only random stages at most. Probably only 2011 was good mainly due to worse Schleck brothers not under Riis, Contador tired after Giro and Evans. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:47
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06/07/08 were quite good. No one dominant. Never know what was going to happen. Some thing unpredictable could happen every day. Every evening and morning I watched the news and every time a big rider could've been popped.
Much better than these last few years
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| clamel |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:50
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Ybodonk I agree that the knowledge is a bit various.
I think I have seen the most (also as active long ago) since mid-70's and it has always been the biggest stars of their age that has been the one taken the critic. Then when they have been caught in the net and exposed the scandal has been terrible. Lance is the major case I think. Remember that even long before cycling was such a global event, the supreme Merckx was in the net too. I lived in Denmark at the time Bjarne Riis was caught. After being hailed as National Icon after his TDF win he dropped to the cellar and folks was just furious as hell. That has later slowly turned back to some sort of acceptance. But it took time.
Other that was dropped with the hammers and not mentioned so much, adding to your list, Rasmussen, Vinokorov, Tylor Hamilton and from the golden years Joop Zoetemelk, Michel Pollentier, Jean-Luc van den Broucke, Francesco Moser, Pedro Delgado, Erik Zabel and so many more.
Even great French like Thevenet used cortisone for a number of years and Fignon used amphetamines and Virenque too
The list is terrible and seems to be endless.
https://en.wikipe...in_cycling
Reading that so many sad memory returned.
However one has to think about that doping is a very wide area, and sometimes certain stuff is in and out of the list. Also it's from steroids, EPO down to cough mixture. A mistake or systematic use of stuffs too.
Just know that asthma is really common among many riders, at least in the past and in the past one was not really sure what medicine for it included.
It has always been there and will always be. So better enjoy what one sees on the road and on the screens. (without spitting)
As you mentioning one better enjoy the riders as of now and then just scream SHIT-- him too, if the hammer drops.
Edited by clamel on 25-07-2015 12:53
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| Shonak |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:51
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Smowz wrote:
This bothers me that some if our users are not really aware of Valverde's past. I rather jibed on other thread that finger is pointed always at Armstrong, but because of his super high profile it almost covers up the other little things that has happened since Lance's last win.
No one ever mentions Landis, would not mention Rasmussen if he were not stabbing microphone in faces, 2010's messy Schleck 'win' thanks to Conta ban is also put on back burner. two members of astana's 2014 team banned for doping anyone?
But no Armstrong always with this ugly bastard.
The bigger they are.. Armstrong was not a mere cycling star, he was globally an icon and lifestyle superstar. Jeez his confession got aired on Oprah, media-wise there's only the white house above of that (and Armstrong would have become president too probably if he ran at some future point, back when he was considered still clean, hypothetical)
He was also a dirtbag and I think he agrees with it himself by now. Think Simeoni stuff or the whole threatening of people.. Case of when too much power corrupts your mind.
This guy was a bit of a lunatic in fact, and that's the real hard thing to swallow. Other cyclists like Ullrich or Hamilton or Landis liked and achieved to put themselves in a victim role, Armstrong has always been on top of it. Frankly, he is no crybaby like the others, instead too much Texan Boss.
So, Armstrong just adds another layer to all this doping controversy that guys like Hamilton, Landis etc have not touched upon.
When you look him up at Twitter he seems to live a pretty fine life now; so good for him. Cycling needs to understand the past to learn for the future, Armstrong may be good in the future to keep us from blind-believing fairy-tales. I don't consider him the root of all evil, he gave me lots of hours of awe and shock.
As to why some dopers are liked and some are not, and I wish we could get rid of doping: Well, think of it like you think of a girlfriend. You may not like all the stuff that crazy girl does all the time but you still like enough about her to stay with her. Valv is a cheater, but he can ride a bike alright.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 12:56
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
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deek12345 wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
Can we already say that Giro again has beaten TdF for good?
For me Tdf was as it is..but they clearly fucked up first week. It should be classic tour first week. We don't want to know tour winner after 4 stage. Let's keep that first week simple and for sprinters.
For me the giro been the better GT for the past few years ,and also the vuelta
weird is that at Giro there has been last years thin favorites list. Same time at TdF there is fight for every spot at top 10.
Still I am Giro man..(have been long time) |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:03
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
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another funny fact I did find out this year..
I did not know that Vuelta was planned/ raced to end of april..until 1995 they moved it to september. |
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:06
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 910
Joined: 20-07-2011
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Shonak wrote:
Smowz wrote:
This bothers me that some if our users are not really aware of Valverde's past. I rather jibed on other thread that finger is pointed always at Armstrong, but because of his super high profile it almost covers up the other little things that has happened since Lance's last win.
No one ever mentions Landis, would not mention Rasmussen if he were not stabbing microphone in faces, 2010's messy Schleck 'win' thanks to Conta ban is also put on back burner. two members of astana's 2014 team banned for doping anyone?
But no Armstrong always with this ugly bastard.
The bigger they are.. Armstrong was not a mere cycling star, he was globally an icon and lifestyle superstar. Jeez his confession got aired on Oprah, media-wise there's only the white house above of that (and Armstrong would have become president too probably if he ran at some future point, back when he was considered still clean, hypothetical)
He was also a dirtbag and I think he agrees with it himself by now. Think Simeoni stuff or the whole threatening of people.. Case of when too much power corrupts your mind.
This guy was a bit of a lunatic in fact, and that's the real hard thing to swallow. Other cyclists like Ullrich or Hamilton or Landis liked and achieved to put themselves in a victim role, Armstrong has always been on top of it. Frankly, he is no crybaby like the others, instead too much Texan Boss.
So, Armstrong just adds another layer to all this doping controversy that guys like Hamilton, Landis etc have not touched upon.
When you look him up at Twitter he seems to live a pretty fine life now; so good for him. Cycling needs to understand the past to learn for the future, Armstrong may be good in the future to keep us from blind-believing fairy-tales. I don't consider him the root of all evil, he gave me lots of hours of awe and shock.
As to why some dopers are liked and some are not, and I wish we could get rid of doping: Well, think of it like you think of a girlfriend. You may not like all the stuff that crazy girl does all the time but you still like enough about her to stay with her. Valv is a cheater, but he can ride a bike alright.
Doping has been and always will be a part of cycling, so i am puzzled why people would assume otherwise. Team Sky clearly have something going, Astana clearly with all their doping cases have something going, And so does every other team.
And as to Armstrong, well its absolute ridiculous to see the hetz against him, everyone in top 40 was doped. So he won those tours on level terms. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:07
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Posts: 5075
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Spilak23 wrote:
06/07/08 were quite good. No one dominant. Never know what was going to happen. Some thing unpredictable could happen every day. Every evening and morning I watched the news and every time a big rider could've been popped.
Much better than these last few years
Imo, 2008 was hella boring. Basically only raced on Hautacam and Alpe. I think 5 riders were under 1 minute on the final mountain stage which just.... meh. Shouldnt happen, may have been exciting the final days, but witnesses about a hella bad route.
Edited by Riis123 on 25-07-2015 13:07
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 28-11-2024 19:24
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:07
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Classics Specialist
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Jacdk wrote:
And as to Armstrong, well its absolute ridiculous to see the hetz against him, everyone in top 40 was doped. So he won those tours on level terms.
That's not how doping works.
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:11
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Stromeon wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
And as to Armstrong, well its absolute ridiculous to see the hetz against him, everyone in top 40 was doped. So he won those tours on level terms.
That's not how doping works.
No not all respond the same, but that is no different than not all responding the same to training.
You and i can do the exact same training and you might be 10 times better than me.
Same goes for doping, everyone had the same options and most took the same. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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Will be interesting how Nibali recovers from yesterday. He seems to be in top shape by now and getting 1:20 out of Valv in Alpe d'Huez is.. possible.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Jacdk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:12
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Shonak wrote:
Will be interesting how Nibali recovers from yesterday. He seems to be in top shape by now and getting 1:20 out of Valv in Alpe d'Huez is.. possible.
Yep its possible, Nibali just need Valverde to have a defect before, otherwise he cant do shit. |
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:13
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Posts: 857
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Stromeon wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
And as to Armstrong, well its absolute ridiculous to see the hetz against him, everyone in top 40 was doped. So he won those tours on level terms.
That's not how doping works.
Actually it works that way. If they used different stuff then it's a problem when you win because of better doping. But all of them were on as much EPO as possible. I don't get why Lance is hated for doping. I hate him cuz he's an asshole nothing more. |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:28
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As it stands from the break Majka wins this stage easy and potentially KOM jersey too. |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:32
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
As it stands from the break Majka wins this stage easy and potentially KOM jersey too.
He's just been caught by the peloton 
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| CountArach |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:39
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dark_x2012 wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
And as to Armstrong, well its absolute ridiculous to see the hetz against him, everyone in top 40 was doped. So he won those tours on level terms.
That's not how doping works.
Actually it works that way. If they used different stuff then it's a problem when you win because of better doping. But all of them were on as much EPO as possible. I don't get why Lance is hated for doping. I hate him cuz he's an asshole nothing more.
No that is not at all the way that it works.
If your natural haematocrit is, for example, 45%, then you can only take a small amount of EPO to bump you up to 50%. If your haematocrit is naturally lower, say 38%, you can take much more of it to bump you up to that cut-off and, in the process, gain far more advantage from doping. It used to be the case that people whose haematocrit was 45%+ by nature could not make a career as a pro cyclist. I think it is in Hamilton's book.
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| dark_x2012 |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:42
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CountArach wrote:
dark_x2012 wrote:
Stromeon wrote:
Jacdk wrote:
And as to Armstrong, well its absolute ridiculous to see the hetz against him, everyone in top 40 was doped. So he won those tours on level terms.
That's not how doping works.
Actually it works that way. If they used different stuff then it's a problem when you win because of better doping. But all of them were on as much EPO as possible. I don't get why Lance is hated for doping. I hate him cuz he's an asshole nothing more.
No that is not at all the way that it works.
If your natural haematocrit is, for example, 45%, then you can only take a small amount of EPO to bump you up to 50%. If your haematocrit is naturally lower, say 38%, you can take much more of it to bump you up to that cut-off and, in the process, gain far more advantage from doping. It used to be the case that people whose haematocrit was 45%+ by nature could not make a career as a pro cyclist. I think it is in Hamilton's book.
What I meant was that if all are willing to cheat and are using EPO you can't blame a single doper for winning. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 25-07-2015 13:48
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
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This stage is to much for Barguil. |
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