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Fattigue (training)
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| rovers |
Posted on 08-02-2013 21:19
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-03-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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About 5 months into my first serious game in PCM12, I noticed the max fitness from training had decreased on pretty much all my riders(at lest the decent ones...).
I set many up with the classics_23 fitness chedule, as it seemed to give good form early and over a long period. Now I see that was maybe not so smart, as the max fitness has decreased quite a bit. See attached pic.
Questions:
1) Is there a way to know what fitness level a rider has or can one just look at the points (training+race)? In Cym04 there was 7 fitness levels ranging from very bad up to excellent.
2) Is there a way to know how much fattigue a certain fitness tr. schedule will give? I assume there is an account you fill and the bars represent a specific value for each type in the fitness schedule. When the account is full, you start to reduce the max 80.
3) What purpose does the recovery training camp serve? I looked at the result and there were just a 4 digit number next to each rider. No-one seemed to gain higher max-fitness in the training, it actuelly went down a point or two...
If you know the answer of one or more questions, please help me out.
This game is very different from Cym4, and my experience there seemes like it is worth nothing :-)
rovers attached the following image:
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 13:26
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| roturn |
Posted on 08-02-2013 21:23
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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1) You just take the addition and then you have the fitness. x/100. Everything less than 70 is not very good and maximum in the early and late season good enough for solid results. For the peaks like GTs, Ardennes etc you should have ~90+
2) When opening the training schedule to edit it there is an option for fatigue. I dislike the Cyanide schedules as they are too much imo. I make my own plan for every single rider with Lachi`s Season Planer.
3) Never used. Can`t really say what they bring. |
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| rovers |
Posted on 08-02-2013 22:42
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-03-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Thank you for the reply :-)
So I take it there is no hidden value for form, what you see is what you get.
I took a look in the custom fitness sch. and there is as you say a calculation there. See attached pic. Is it when the white steps starts you actually loose some of the original max 80 points fitness from training? Anyone know how many points does one step mean?
Still would like some info about the recouperation training camps.
rovers attached the following image:
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| eple |
Posted on 09-02-2013 15:25
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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They start to loose points on max fitness when they reach 50% fatigue. I'm guessing that happens at the first step in the attached image.
Regarding the recovery camps I haven't gotten an impression that they make a big difference on fatigue. They do however have a positive impact on moral and an 'over the moon'-rider will withstand training better.
One thing though. After a peak it will take a few weeks for the riders training to go from level 6 to level 1, thus he will keep his training fitness for a while and keep gaining fatigue even though he might not be racing. If you send him on recovery camp his training fitness will drop very quickly - and I'm guessing you skip that week of training. I don't know if it has a noticeable effect, but I usually do this after peak and before the rest period.
I also make my own schedules. You have much better control that way. I usually have around 24-26 riders + 3 or 4 youngsters for 'backup'/water carriers for a WT-team.
I split them up into 3 groups and make schedules with peaks based on what their goals will be. That way I usually only have to make 3 main schedules + maybe the odd rider that will have different goals, like all 3 major tours. They will have 3-5 level 6 weeks during the season.
I think the best thing to do is have two peaks, and have at least 3-4 weeks of complete rest in between them.
In example:
Group 1: Paris-Nice, Vuelta Cataluna, Spring Classics, Tour de Suisse, Tour de France
Peak: March-April & July. Rest: May-June
Group 2: Tirr-Adriatico, Cobbel classics, Spring Classics, Benelux, Fall classics.
Peak: March-April & August-Sept. Rest: May-June.
Group 3: Romandie, Supergiro, Dauphine, Vuelta Espana.
Peak: May & August-September. Rest: June-July.
I'm probably forgetting some races here, but you get the idea.
For the September and October months I let them train despite fatigue and pick the best riders depending on fitness.
You should carefully select which races you enter. Try to select races with a purpose, so the riders are either using them to gain race fitness or racing at a high level of fitness.
I know you didn't ask for all this info, and perhaps you already know all of this, but when I started my career I wasted a lof of time learning it on the fly. |
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| rovers |
Posted on 09-02-2013 20:17
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Amateur
Posts: 6
Joined: 11-03-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks for the input :-)
Always nice to get some advice from more experienced players.
I only bought the game this week and have pretty limited time for playing, so I am not at all at an advanced level yet ;-) |
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| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 00:44
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Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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eple wrote:
They start to loose points on max fitness when they reach 50% fatigue.
this isnt exactly true. rider fitness is made up of two parts, training (the program you select or make) and race days (how many races they finish) once riders put in 60 race days they will lose the ability to hit 99 fitness because their levels go below the normal x/20. this doesnt have anything to do with the yellow fatigue bar, its just race days. recovery camps help lower the fatigue rating but do nothing to counterbalance the amount of race days you put in.
it is exactly 60 days by the way, a rider with 59 race days can have 99 fitness. each additional race day will lower your max fitness down to 0. its fairly common for many riders to be tired at the end of a season, especially if they have early spring objectives. if you want a rider to be tip top for the vuelta or worlds youve gotta make sure not to over work them until then.
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 11-02-2013 00:52
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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He's talking about the training fitness. When the fatigue is too high (I'm not sure how much in game, but in the fitness planner it's fatigue 4000) the maximum training fitness starts to decrease, until a minimum of 65 (10.000 fatigue), at least according to the fitness planner. Race days are a whole different thing 
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| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 01:07
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Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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lluuiiggii wrote:
He's talking about the training fitness. When the fatigue is too high (I'm not sure how much in game, but in the fitness planner it's fatigue 4000) the maximum training fitness starts to decrease, until a minimum of 65 (10.000 fatigue), at least according to the fitness planner. Race days are a whole different thing
ah see you think thats what hes talking about but re-read his first post. hes clearly having trouble with his riders late in the season and cant explain why. hes clearly not paying attention to race day fitness. and as no mention of it has been made thus far, i wanted to bring it to his attention. let us see if it clears up his problems shall we?
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 11-02-2013 03:14
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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rovers wrote:
I took a look in the custom fitness sch. and there is as you say a calculation there. See attached pic. Is it when the white steps starts you actually loose some of the original max 80 points fitness from training? Anyone know how many points does one step mean?
eple wrote:
They start to loose points on max fitness when they reach 50% fatigue. I'm guessing that happens at the first step in the attached image.
I cannot see from where did you infer that he was talking about race days fitness. Rovers posted the screen from a custom schedule and asked where the 80 max training points start to decrease. Eple answered it's on 50% fatigue, which he guesses to be the first white step on the screen.
Perhaps no one has made mention to race days because the title of the thread says "fatigue", not "form" or "race days". Which makes it even less logical to think that eple was talking about race days form.
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| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 06:04
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Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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i find it funny how easy it is to make you upset. you need to calm down a little buddy, maybe you play too much... ever throw a leg over a real bike? it releases alot of stress...
anyway... i still think mentioning race days is important considering fatigue has nothing to do with being in the late season. lets see what he says eh?
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
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| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 06:06
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Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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rovers wrote:
Questions:
1) Is there a way to know what fitness level a rider has or can one just look at the points (training+race)?
3) What purpose does the recovery training camp serve?
If you know the answer of one or more questions, please help me out.
i believe i shed some light on each of these questions so maybe you should just stop being so negative louigi!
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 11-02-2013 08:42
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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CosmicOsmo wrote:
i find it funny how easy it is to make you upset.
He doesn't look upset to me at all. You, on the other hand... |
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| eple |
Posted on 11-02-2013 10:42
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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To clear up any confusion: I was talking about training fitness, not race fitness, though both are important 
I'm not sure about the 50%, but that's what I've noticed.. When the fatigue bar goes past half full the points on max (80) start dropping. |
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| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 21:09
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Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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eple wrote:
To clear up any confusion: I was talking about training fitness, not race fitness, though both are important
I'm not sure about the 50%, but that's what I've noticed.. When the fatigue bar goes past half full the points on max (80) start dropping.
i was referring to the OP not you, eple. the OP, and none of the subsequent posters mentioned anything about race day fitness which could easily cause the OP some confusion regarding his late season game. like i said lets see if the OP figured out his problems eh!
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
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| Lachi |
Posted on 11-02-2013 22:56
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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He asked when the 80 fitness points start to decrease. 80 fitness points = training fitness.
Luigi's answer is correct but you cannot get much from it when you do not know how these numbers translate to the fatigue bar in the game or the fatigue evaluation in the fitness schedule. But taking into consideration that eple mentioned 50% and that the legend and scale for the white bar is mentioned on the picture, it should become obvious.
Description of the attached picture:
Colored bars = training fitness
White dotted line = fatigue
Red lines by me = Scale
Lachi attached the following image:
Edited by Lachi on 11-02-2013 22:57
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 11-02-2013 23:31
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, ignoring some of the posts in this thread but answering to Lachi and to complement my previous answer:
I copied the attached plan to the Fitness Planner. According to it, fatigue should start affecting your max. training fitness form on the 1st week (level 5) after the 1st lvl 6 peak of 2 weeks. Therefore, what the game calls fatigue 0% doesn't mean no fatigue, but means no effect on max training fitness.
However this (decrease of max training fitness) will only become a big worry on the last week (level 5) before the 2nd lvl 6 peak - at that point, fatigue is 8.000 and max training fitness is 75 (therefore game's 50% fatigue = 8.000 fatigue points/75 max training fitness), not much, but from here on, it'll go down very quickly, as shown in the game. By the end of the 2 following weeks (both in level 6), fatigue will have reached 10.000 which drops to a max 65 training fitness (what the game shows as 100% fatigue).
So it's not a linear progression, which is another reason for me to recommend you to use the Fitness Planner. It gives much more precise values of the expected fitness and fatigue than the game does, so I find it much more useful
https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....ost_578599
Edited by lluuiiggii on 11-02-2013 23:33
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| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 12-02-2013 00:00
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Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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CosmicOsmo wrote:
rovers wrote:
Questions:
1) Is there a way to know what fitness level a rider has or can one just look at the points (training+race)?
3) What purpose does the recovery training camp serve?
If you know the answer of one or more questions, please help me out.
i believe i shed some light on each of these questions so maybe you should just stop being so negative louigi!
yea nuff said here. i know you love me louigi
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
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| Panda Claws |
Posted on 14-02-2013 11:05
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Amateur
Posts: 4
Joined: 29-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I decided to post here once more, because I cannot believe how unbelievable annoying and hypocrite CosmicOsmo is being. |
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