right I`m on the riders card in the team roster page and I`ve clicked onto his training info.
Could someone please take me through how it works please?
I understand that the named trainer has different qualities which effect progress/development of the rider being trained.
Following the chart I`ve come across in another thread an example is a "Sprinter" trainer can train a rider to maybe gain up to 3 points in his Sprinting bar,2 on his Endurance etc etc
This I follow.
Further down the rider page there`s Specialised Training printed,with Sprinter typed and a box that you can change to the various types of trainer.What does this do and what should I set it to?
It`s not very clear what to do here.Do you set it to the same as the trainer or the specific type of training that you want that rider to gain points in?
Now I`m guessing that the yellow stars signify the attributes that can be gained against with this trainer and this schedule..yes?
There doesn`t seem to be a confirm or OK button ,does any changes you make automaticaly save once you click to another page etc.
Sorry for more dumb questions,I`m getting there ,I think!
You train on which you want, no matter the trainer's specialty. No need to confirm, saves automatically. Starts don't relats to trainer but to their own potential. One star is about 2-3-4 potential levels.
Cycling Rookie wrote:
Following the chart I`ve come across in another thread an example is a "Sprinter" trainer can train a rider to maybe gain up to 3 points in his Sprinting bar,2 on his Endurance etc etc
I guess you're talking about this table right?
If yes, that relates to what the rider is training, not the trainer.
Going through the rest of the page:
On the right, you see all his stats and some starts next to them. As Ian said, the stars represent how much the rider still can develop on that stat. Each star corresponds to about 2~4 stats.
On the bottom, there's his specialisation (climber, sprinter, puncheur, etc). That is simply the rider's current specialisation given his stats. Below that, you have the selection box where you can change what the rider will be training, his workplan. Depending on what you choose, you'll have a bonus developing some stats, which is what the table above shows.
Lastly, the trainer part: a trainer is not needed for developing skills, but when you have them they develop faster. However the game has a 'default' trainer, which is applied to all riders that don't have a "proper" trainer. His stats are not that good logically, and are random in each career iirc.
As you can see in the "staff" page, each trainer has an attribute for each workplan. What matters is the attribute of the workplan you've selected in the bottom of the page. Basically, the attribute of the coach will multiply the speed of development in the value of the attribute - e.g. setting a trainer with 5 in Climber to train someone whose workplan is a Climber will work half as good as setting a trainer with 10 in Climber. There's one other factor though, which is that the lower the coach attribute, the higher a chance of a "lucky day" bonus in training (can't be seen in the game), meaning that a coach with attribute 1 in something is not 5 times behind a coach with 5, because the coach with attribute 1 gets a lot more lucky days.
And lastly on trainers, the more riders a trainer has, the worse will be his performance. Up to 8, he'll have 100% efficiency (not mattering if it's 4 or 8). From that on, each rider decreases 5% efficiency. 9 riders mean 95% efficiency; 10 riders, 90%, 11, 85%, and so on.
About saving:
This game saves automatically
- after you simulate to the next date
- before you start a race in 3D
- after a race has been concluded
- before you quit to the main menu (not sure if this still applies in PCM12 though)
So if you quit the game without doing any of the above, all your actions since the last save will be lost, this applies to all interfaces not only the training.
Ian Butler wrote:
Though one small question, what's a lucky day for a coach? A random raise in stats?
It's a lucky training day, not a lucky day for a coach. It's a bonus "that goes from 0 to about 66%". So you have the whole d2dp formula and then you add the lucky day factor, as you can see in the end of the post: https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....ost_592671
So as an example I have a rider who has 3 Stars against Mountains,2 Stars against Recovery and 1 Star against Hills.So these are the attributes he has the potential to grow.
My trainer is specialised in Sprint,which is no good for our rider,so I change our rider to training "Climber",so his potential growth attributes suit his traing regime...yes?
Edited by Cycling Rookie on 10-12-2012 15:53
Well, you change his training workplan according to the type of rider you want him to become. When thinking on the type of rider you want him to become, you take into account the potential, but it doesn't mean that you should always train him where he's got the most potential (f.e., a climber with 78 MO and one star left, while he has 4 stars left in SP, which he currently has 58.. he'll be able to develop more in sprint, but it's definitely more worth to train him as a climber ).
As for trainer specialisation, of course it's best that the trainer specialisation is the same as what you want the rider to train, but if he has f.e. 8 in sprint and 7 in climber, he'll still be a pretty good trainer for climbers.
That helps me a lot. Had no idea what I was doing, apparently A follow up question though: what improves the "downhill" attribute? I have a few riders with great potential for improvement there, and it's the one thing my team lacks.
That helps me a lot. Had no idea what I was doing, apparently A follow up question though: what improves the "downhill" attribute? I have a few riders with great potential for improvement there, and it's the one thing my team lacks.
There's no training that gives bonus to improving downhill (should be noted that in the table, the stats that have a 0 doesn't mean 'no improvement', but instead 'no bonus' - downhill has a 0 for everything, which means it's always in the "normal" improvement speed).
Ahh, I see. So rather than improving that stat quickly, it is something that increases as the rider gets older? Makes sense, seeing as I have most young riders.
A few more questions if you don't mind.
I did a few tries on PCM10 and half a season on PCM12, but gave up due to problems arising from a poor season plan. Now I'm at the end of my first full season. I chose a custom team with a rather big budget (580k) to try and have a big squad and still compete with my limited knowledge of the game.
Nibali did well in Giro and somehow I was able to win 15 stages but i was paying too close attention to Wiggins and Gasparoni was able to snatch the overall win on the last two mountain stages. I was kinda stuck in two minds as Rui Costa, after a break away on stage 4 got a 20 minutes lead on the favorites and I wasn't sure whether to ride for Costa or Nibali, as Nibali had a small lead on Wiggins too. Although loosing a few minutes here and there Costa held the jersey until those last two mountain stages, when I was too worried about Wiggins and exerted all my riders on getting Nibali up the hill first, and in the the chaos I forgot about Costa so he rode calmly up the mountains and lost alot of time.
1. Should I have protected Costa? He isn't as strong a rider (AVR 74), but I could probably held on to that lead if I had protected him throughout the the Giro, right?
I wasn't accepted for Tour de France, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise as I had way too many races that season. Froome got 2nd in the Vuelta which is okay, but lost by more than 5 minutes to Contador. I think it was partly down to me not knowing much about mountain stages, as I improved towards the end, and partly down to Froome only starting with around 75 fitness and only reaching around 95 at best.
So next season I want to come back and win, but I'll probably be competing in Tour de France as well.
2. I have Froome, Nibali and Rodrigues as my leaders. Is it possible to have them all riding 2 of the main tours and still have them fit? How many race should the ride before the tours if so? In example if Nibali rides 10 days before one tour and 10 days before the next, he will pretty much be fit, right? So in example: Giro: Nibali, Froome. Tour: Froome, Rodrigues. Vuelta: Rodrigues, Nibali. Would that work out?
And some random questions.
3. The day form represent by plus +5 in example. Does that relate to fitness? In example a rider with 95 fitness will have 95+5=100?
4. In the giro I decimated all my extra riders to join in on or chase in breakaways (hence the 15 stage wins, as Sagen took most sprints and Uram took most breakaway stages and Rui Costa/Nibali won alot of mountain stages), wheras in the Vuelta I just sat back and let Contador worry about the jersey. Will excerting the riders like I did in the Giro have a big impact on their fitness in later stages of the tour? To be honest I didn't notice much difference.
5. How do you handle sprints on stages with a lot of wind?
6. When is a good time to renew contracts? I noticed riders demands change during the season.
7. Are the pre-made trainging scheduels good, or should I make my own? I had some trouble with fatigue, so should I rather choose those schedules that have less training, or should I attempt to make my own?
8. Does training camps have an impact on fatigue? Obviously recovery camps does, but I mean the other training camps.
9. Does making a lot of money from race income impact your budget, or is it just there for safe keeping and to be spent on souting, camps, coaching, etc? I have 1.9m euros now, despite having staff salaries of over 100k each month.
I probably have more questions but can't think of it now. Although it could be better in some areas I flipping love this game already. Will probably try out a big challenge next time, with a small team, as that is my favorite way of playing in football manager.
1. I'm not sure if you should have protected Costa. You should at least have cared about him, if he was 1st in the GC
2. Yeah, that's of course possible. I experienced that a week of racing before a GT seems enough. Especially between the Tour and Vuelta, there isn't a big amount of time between them, so I think you kept some of your racing fitness. You should not ride too much other races if you're aiming for GT wins in 2 GT's... I would suggest having a maximum of 65 race days at the end of the last GT.
3. No, I'm not sure where it does relate to, but I'm sure it has a bigger effect than fitness...
4. Yes, it does effect the green bar in later stages. That's what the recuperation stat does. How higher the recuperation stat, the less it does effect... When the green bar is smaller, the riders will be exhausted faster.
5. I'm not sure, but I think you should just keep your rider out the wind. That means protecting him, and try to keep him in the middle of the peloton, I mean, not at the sides.
6. I should definitely do it before half of June, because people will try to sign your rider starting in July. It depends on the age. When someone is declining, the demanding wages gets smaller each time, but when developing, you should do it early.
7. It's definitely better to do it your own. You can use Lachi's season planner, to make it easier.
8. Yes, they do. The winter camp, which you can only use on January and February, really fatigue your rider. I heared that the other 'normal' trainingscamps, do affect the fatigue too, but I'm not sure of that.
9. It doesn't impact your wage budget. It's just to spend on scouting, camps etc. And of course on not getting broke
+ I think your right about starting a career with a small team. It's more enjoyable than a big team, in my opinion. Although it's smart to start a career with a WT team first, because it's easier and it might be more fun at the start...
1. Yeah, I think that is probably correct. It would be some achievement too, winning it with him. Maybe I'll try the same breakaway tactic next year
2: Do you know how long the race fitness counts? I assume it's a certain number of days.
5. So I should avoid setting up a train and rather let my sprinter sit on the protected side of another team's train and have him protected by a good flat rider?
8: Should you not do pres-season training camps then unless you are desperate to get the rider fit (for Tour down under maybe), and rather let the training slowly get them fit?
New question:
10. How is the AVR rating worked out? Is it calculated towards the riders speciality somehow? I nocticed that time trialist have generally high overall attributes.
1. Yeah, it would be great to win a GT with someone of average 74, although it might be a little bit unrealistic, of course... Although Costa is a lot better in the database I got, he got 77 average in that...
2. No, I don't know, sorry... I think it will be about 1 per day... But if your race fitness is still 7 after the Tour, and you use the Eneco Tour to get in form for the Vuelta, it's logical that the race fitness will be higher after Eneco if you rode the tour, than if you didn't ride the Tour, since you still got the 7 race fitness 'bonus' points.
5: Not necassary, but you should not set a train up, completely unprotected against the wind. You should position your train a bit in the central area of the peloton(I mean not left nor right), and you should not let your team be the only one out front, you should be next to/just behind the train the most at front.. I'm not an expert at windy sprints though...
8: Yeah, that is what I do. There might be people with a different opinion, but if you use a pre-season trainingcamp with people who want to do good at the end of the season, you might regret that later in the season...
10: I don't know exactly how the averages are calculated. At least they don't use every stat equal per specialisation. I mean, as a stage-racer(Froome is), sprint isn't as important for the average as climbing/TT is. I think there is a complicated formula for the averages, I just don't know the formula. Although the average for fighters and TT-ists are really strange. The other stats seem really important for them, since Tony Martin, one of the best TT-ists of the world, gets 75 average, and well, people like Hagen get a good average, although he's worse in TT. Same goes for the fighters
Hope it helped
2. I guess its simple to test. I just had my last race of the season so I'll keep a close eye to when the race fitness drops.
I have Tony Martin too. He is nr 10 in the continental and nr 18 in the superprestige. Hagen is nr 1 and nr 9 respectively. The thing is, I have been using them as help riders only, and not riding for them at all, and even better their wages are really low, I assume becouse of the AVR rating.
Hagen especially is quite extreme, I usually use him as my last rider in the sprint train behind Martin, but by the time Martin runs out of steam Hagen is usually so full of energy he takes a podium place or even gets the win. And in hilly races he usually sits with the peleton so well that he sometimes manages to attack and sneak a victory. He is close to top class in everything and can win any kind of race except the most difficult mountain stages. He has 81 in TT for me now btw and wins alot of them,
2. You lose approx 1 point each day that you don't race, and win about 2 each day you race.
On Jesleyh's 5, there's not really a way to choose where your riders create a train (left, right, center), is there? Unless you set the first man of your train to follow the wheel of some other rider.
8. Just thought I'd mention that you'll find several people that consider using training camps as cheating, because the AI doesn't do it and it gives a tremendous boost. It's kinda like doping in game imo
10. For each rider specialisation there's a different formula for calculating average, which vary on what stats are used and their weight (you can see these 'formulas' on table STA_type_rider of the DB). For each rider, the game will calculate the 7 different averages (corresponding to the 7 different rider types), and the rider specialisation will be the one with the highest average. What happens with TT-ists, pure climbers and fighters is that, while all 7 formulas are used to decide what will be the rider specialisation, only 4 are used to show the rider's average in the game - the formulas for stage racers, sprinters, puncheurs and northern classics riders.
So taking Tony Martin's example, when you calculate his 7 averages the time trialist will be the bigger, thus his specialisation will be time trial - but since the time trial specialist average can't be used, you'll see the bigger average of the 4 "usable" ones, which will be for stage races (76).
@lluuiiggii about the sprint train: I know there isn't a button for that, but you can control how much 'dot' you use, to go to the front/at the back, and I found out that you can control where you place your train a tiny bit, by first following a cyclist from another team with the front of your train. for example at the far left side, and going over to dot... It's no guarentee, but the train will at least not go to the far right after that...
I am pro doping as long as everyone uses it and it's a requirement to do the sport. That way everyone can contribute in to making a super human
I was looking at the race fitness now and it seemed to drop 1 point every other day, but it wasn't really clear what was going on. Maybe one day of racing will count towards the value for a certain number of days. That would explain why I saw different rates of dropping. Unfortunately they all dropped to 0 at the same time after my riders went on holiday, so I wasn't able to note how many days after the final race they still had race fitness.
Edited by eple on 10-12-2012 21:36
Sorry for taking over this thread with unrelated questions, but I have another one.
In the beginning of the season I sent a scout to the UK. He is currently monitoring 3 riders. I couldn't get him to monitor a fourth one, so I had to cancel one to get him to monitor another one. But I recently hired another scout though and sent him to belgium. It seems I can only have him monitor 1 rider. Why is that?
Also, when should I start the search for a new sponsor? Is it dependent on current results? I.e. will I get better results after doing well in one of the big tours?
).
A follow up question though: what improves the "downhill" attribute? I have a few riders with great potential for improvement there, and it's the one thing my team lacks.
