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Not using dot on mountain stages
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| TiemenD |
Posted on 13-04-2012 08:46
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Stagiare
Posts: 239
Joined: 06-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I've came across a couple threads were players mentioned that in PCM11 it's not needed any longer to use dot on mountain stages. (and even call it a form of cheating).
I was wondering what exactly they mean by that,
does it mean that you can now use "maintain position" with your top rider and keep him in the favorites group without burning much more energy then with the dot command?
And what if your rider is f.e. 8th in the favorites group on maintain position, and the 7th rider has troubles keeping up with the pace, will your rider then pass him automatically so he stays in touch with the favorites group? |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 13-04-2012 08:51
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3772
Joined: 10-09-2010
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My experience in this, is that in a mountain stage with, let's say, 3 climbs, it's okay to use the "maintain position"-button in the first 2 climbs (let your leader be in the first 15 positions).
But on the final climb, my goal is always to let my leader start the climb in the first 3 positions (using dot before the climb), and then let him stay there with the dot (lowering it when possible, and raising it when necessary). When I use the "maintain position", he'll slowly loose contact, especially when the other favourites attack.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 07:53
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| Lachi |
Posted on 13-04-2012 09:38
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
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If your rider is on "maintain position" then you should be able to use the % to regulate his position.
If your rider would over-perform using the dot (like Tony Martin being able to follow Contador), then obviously it is kind of a cheat. But since I only use the dot for positioning or strategy similar to what dienblad wrote, I cannot say if you could over-perform. |
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 13-04-2012 20:09
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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In my opinion the dot isn't cheating at all and you should not feel bad for using it on mountain stages.
On mountains, the dot is simply the most energy efficient way to get up a mountain. This is because the attack button instantly burns out your rider and is therefore useless. Maintaining position can be buggy and annoying. Unless you are using your entire team at the front, there is no point in relaying either. If the game becomes too easy for you using dot, it's not because you are cheating but because you are simply getting too good for the difficulty level you are playing at. |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 20:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4790
Joined: 06-12-2006
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Yes - dot is the only option. You could have the best climber in the game and if you send him up the final climb with maintain position, he'll burn himself out way before the top. |
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 20:20
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1493
Joined: 11-10-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I thought i knew all about PCM-Gameplay 
Obviously not 
I'm looking forward to try it out when i'm back home! 
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| Mresuperstar |
Posted on 13-04-2012 20:33
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8059
Joined: 22-06-2009
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I surprisingly hardly ever use the dot on mountain stage unless for positioning early on the climb. Otherwise I go old fashion and use the attack button.
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 20:53
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1493
Joined: 11-10-2009
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Beleg32 wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
I thought i knew all about PCM-Gameplay
Obviously not
I'm looking forward to try it out when i'm back home!
You're serious or being sarcastic ? Without the dot, you cant do well in any mountain stage, hell..even hilly.
Yes i'm bloody serious Actually i did well but i only played on Normal  now i play on Hard and i can't win much so i'll try "dotting" up a hill or mountain.
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| ravenation |
Posted on 13-04-2012 20:57
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Under 23
Posts: 55
Joined: 28-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Beleg32 wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
I thought i knew all about PCM-Gameplay
Obviously not
I'm looking forward to try it out when i'm back home!
You're serious or being sarcastic ? Without the dot, you cant do well in any mountain stage, hell..even hilly.
Well, i also stopped using the dot as my riders always burned out before the top. Now i use maintain position or short lead. If a favourite attacks - most of the time the AI closes the gap or i put one of my helpers on "constant lead", to drive him back in.
It works much better for me - in older versions i always used the dot - but it does not work in PCM11 for me.
If you hold position you spare energy - if you use the dot you use energy all way of the mountain. |
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:01
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1493
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Maybe another question related to this one:
Do you have to keep your riders always in front of the bunch? (Short relay than hold position) If yes, does it take more energy for a protected leader to climb in front ca. 10 position up a mountain or is it energy saving to "hide" in the bunch and only pop-up for the last mountain?
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:14
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
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sam1196 wrote:
Maybe another question related to this one:
Do you have to keep your riders always in front of the bunch? (Short relay than hold position) If yes, does it take more energy for a protected leader to climb in front ca. 10 position up a mountain or is it energy saving to "hide" in the bunch and only pop-up for the last mountain?
I've seen cases (normally on flat stages, when the P is chasing the early break because it is too big or too dangerous or whatever) that a rider of mine in the first rows of the P is suffering much more than another rider which is some rows behind. So I always tend to back my leaders a little bit in mountain stages, and usually even more on flat stages. And obviously try to position them near the front of the peloton when the harder/final climbs are coming.
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| ravenation |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:21
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Under 23
Posts: 55
Joined: 28-05-2007
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sam1196 wrote:
Maybe another question related to this one:
Do you have to keep your riders always in front of the bunch? (Short relay than hold position) If yes, does it take more energy for a protected leader to climb in front ca. 10 position up a mountain or is it energy saving to "hide" in the bunch and only pop-up for the last mountain?
Well i always protect my rider to save energy - but better to stay on front - the game has this fault that you easily get caught behind someone and it take s a lot of energy to get back up. |
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:26
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1493
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So best thing to do would be:
-Protect your leader from the start but let him stay in the middle of the bunch.
-Let him move forward just before an important climb.
-Putting him on "dot" uphill.
I've got another two questions.
- I know it doesn't matter much but what is the fastest way to go downhill when being alone. Dot or Short relay or even Hold Position?
-And about attacking. Is the best way to attack using the Dot? Or the real attack button? Is That also the case when countering an attack?
So when someone attack and you want to counter. Do you counter-attack or let him close the gap steadily using Dot?
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:37
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World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
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sam1196 wrote:
I've got another two questions.
- I know it doesn't matter much but what is the fastest way to go downhill when being alone. Dot or Short relay or even Hold Position?
- And about attacking. Is the best way to attack using the Dot? Or the real attack button? Is That also the case when countering an attack?
So when someone attack and you want to counter. Do you counter-attack or let him close the gap steadily using Dot?
- I always use the dot, on a quite high percentage like 80-85.
- As already mentioned in posts above, the attack button just wastes energy if you ask me. Though I do use the counter-attack button at times, as that uses a lot less energy. In most cases I slowly close the gap with the dot however.
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:48
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1493
Joined: 11-10-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Many thanks Pelli
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 13-04-2012 21:59
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
Joined: 17-11-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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If your rider is riding completely alone, it doesn't matter if you select relay, dot or maintain position. The rider will simply ride at the speed that correlates with his effort level, related rider skill stats and form. The behavioural buttons only affect how a rider rides in relation to other riders.
If you want to counter an attack up a climb or hill, always use the dot, or if you wish to have your helper in the same group counter it, use relay. I would only use the attack button at the near top of a climb, to win points for the mountain jersey. If you wish to attack from the pack yourself, just use the dot at a percentage that will tear your group to shreds/lets you ride away from the group.
To answer an earlier question, I try to keep my leader at 3rd/4th position when starting and going up a climb. One of the riders in front of him would be a teammate, protecting him. |
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| Kentaurus |
Posted on 13-04-2012 22:13
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3999
Joined: 26-07-2011
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I would advise to always have a protector for your lead rider. If you play with a team lacking great support climbers (say you have 1 guy with 80 MO, and the next best is at 73) that one rider probably won't be able to protect the whole route. I normally will actually use many members of my team to protect to give me the best chance on the final climb. (I would have a rider protect my 73 just to get him to the final climb in good shape to help my main rider, another rider protecting my main rider up to that point, or maybe 2 riders trading off the protection so they don't run out of energy too early).
As far as the group I generally will try and keep my main rider right with the other contenders, the AI positions it's riders pretty well so if you just follow what Contador is doing you should be in solid shape at the end of the race.
AZTECA - NBCSN  |
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