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How to TT/Prologue?
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| SotD |
Posted on 17-04-2011 19:12
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World Champion
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As the topic may suggest I can't seem to find out how to TT/prologue...
It all seems very random to me. Managed to finish 20th with a 66 prologue stat rider, and far behind top 60 with a rider with 76...
There's a light bulp which seems to be the automatic setting, or am I wrong? When I correct the speed the rider seems to suck... What to do?
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| dueceone |
Posted on 17-04-2011 19:23
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Amateur
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You're right abou the light bulb... when that's "lit" up, it's on auto-pilot.
For manual control.. As a pretty obvious general rule, the longer the race, the lower you need to set the effort level to keep them from tiring before the line. In a 7k prologue, you might be able to run 78 effort... in a 50k tt, you might need to run 53 effort. Also, aside from short bursts toward the line... you'll never really be running above the 70's for any length of time. Most courses are going to be something between 55-75... There's a few super short 2k prologues or long 60k TT's that are obvious exceptions but you really don't want to be too far on either side of those numbers for extended periods of time.
Personally, I try to pick a specific effort level that I can run the whole race at and leave just a bit left for a surge in the last k or for the last hill. Some people try to find a HR and stick it to one rate for the whole course, both methods work but I find the effort level a bit easier to monitor.
For stage races, you want to use your team to find the perfect effort level for your GC guy... send a couple guys a bit high, a couple a bit low, and you eventually find the 'sweetspot' that will let your GC pin it up to the end without over-revving himself.
To pick the effort level for your first rider, you have to guage the terrain and the length and just make your best 'guess' and then start adjusting for each rider that follows. If you've got a course with a huge hill in the beginning followed by dh & flat and half way through the course you still have 50% energy left, you're going too slow... start speeding up and send the next guy a bit faster. If you get half way through and your guys almost out of gas... slow down and send the next guy at a lower level. After the first three or four guys, you should have it down to within a couple points of the 'perfect' effort level and, from there, it all comes down to your riders skills and his form. |
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| ABridgeTooFar |
Posted on 17-04-2011 19:38
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Domestique
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I agree with the above post. I use the effort technique and do not worry about heart rate. Your rider's form will have a strong effect on his performance. It seems that form has a bigger impact on TT than on regular road races.
To me the TT needs a little tweaking - simming these stages tend to have a more accurate result as compared to RL. |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 17-04-2011 19:48
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Just adding about the tactics of using the team mates to look for the best effort for your leader:
Don't forget your leader has (very probably) got better stats in recovery, stamina, he is protected all the time, and also better MO/HIL makes him lose much less green bar than a sprinter, f.e.
So if you found 58 to be the perfect number for a sprinter, for example, for your leader it might be 59.
TT is about having the green bar go down the same amount as the yellow bar. Just look in the profile for downhills and climbs and adjust the effort bar to it.
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| SotD |
Posted on 17-04-2011 19:51
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The fact that form has a bigger impact on TT's is pretty realistic I think. They can't hide behind a strong tactic or teammates. Its mano v mano.
But i'll give the suggestions a go...
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| SotD |
Posted on 17-04-2011 19:54
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lluuiiggii wrote:
TT is about having the green bar go down the same amount as the yellow bar. Just look in the profile for downhills and climbs and adjust the effort bar to it.
You have to explain this again...
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 00:05
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 17-04-2011 20:11
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SotD wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
TT is about having the green bar go down the same amount as the yellow bar. Just look in the profile for downhills and climbs and adjust the effort bar to it.
You have to explain this again...
I'm not lluuiiggii, but I'll try to explain.
The green bar is the riders energy. The yellow bar is how far it is to the finish.
Try to make the green bar go down at the same speed as the yellow one. If the green bar goes down faster, you have to lower the riders effort.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 17-04-2011 20:19
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
SotD wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
TT is about having the green bar go down the same amount as the yellow bar. Just look in the profile for downhills and climbs and adjust the effort bar to it.
You have to explain this again...
I'm not lluuiiggii, but I'll try to explain.
The green bar is the riders energy. The yellow bar is how far it is to the finish.
Try to make the green bar go down at the same speed as the yellow one. If the green bar goes down faster, you have to lower the riders effort.
And if there is a downhill just before the finish, your rider should arrive in the downhill with less green bar than yellow, because he won't spend much green in the downhill. Or if there's a climb in the end, arrive with more green.
This video also explains it great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTbJa0...TbJa0lFM-U
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| Munique |
Posted on 17-04-2011 20:46
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Junior Rider
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Any hints for TTT? Going to do Giro d'Italia soon, and wouldn't mess up the TTT  |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 17-04-2011 20:59
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https://www.youtub...LgtW5lOLAg
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| dueceone |
Posted on 17-04-2011 21:56
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Amateur
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That may work well for the 30k ttt in the example used but that's not going to work on longer races at all.
I typically pause once my team is on the line, then based on skills adjust the time... Cancellara gets a 0:25 pull most other good TT riders will get a 0:15-0:20 pull and the weak riders will get a 0:05-0:10 pull. Then you adjust the effort slider to the length and profile of the course and unpause the game... If the race starts with a climb and the front rider is a good climber, I'll make his first pull 0:15-0:20 regardless of his TT skills so he can pull the train up the hill to get the team rolling for the TT guys to start doing damage.
From there, just monitor the team... if one of the weaker riders is running low on energy, drop him to the back and take him out of the relay before he runs out of energy so that he'll hang awhile longer on the train. If everyone seems to burning energy too quickly, back off the effort slider... if they dont seem to be working hard, increase the slider. Expect to lose a few riders before the finish, the important thing is the first five riders and, if you're going for the overall GC, keeping your GC in with those riders.
One note for GC... If your GC rider is a weak TT rider, take him out of the relay from the start and just 'click' him back in each time you drop another rider out of the relay for just long enough to let him pull forward with the lead group and always be the first man in line not working... If you're going strictly for GC and don't care about the stage win, don't let your TT guys ride away from your GC guy ever, he'll finish much faster & much fresher getting towed along behind good tt riders going slow than he will on his own. If he's strong enough that you expect he can make up the time in the mountains or weak enough that he doesn't have a real shot, keep him with the lead group as long as you can and then let the best of your group pull away for the stage result.
Edited by CrueTrue on 17-04-2011 22:00
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 17-04-2011 22:10
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Well, I've used this tactic in several TTTs, 2 of them in TdF 70 km TTT. And got great results in both of them:
2nd on the first time, 1" behind the winner, 9" faster than 3rd, 4th place coming more than 2 minutes behind (and the winner had better TT riders than me). Second time I had one or two more time trialists, and won about 20 seconds before second place, again 3rd was close and 4th was miles away.
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| dueceone |
Posted on 18-04-2011 06:07
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Amateur
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1st. I wasn't trying to piss on your technique or start some competition, I was just pointing out a fairly obvious flaw with leaving people pinned at 80 regardless of length or terrain...
2nd. Results are contigent upon way more than just the technique you've mentioned here. Even assuming perfect form for everyone, not knowing your team or competition makes the results meaningless in terms of being an indicator for how effective your technique is.
3rd. Since you want to talk results... The last time I ran the 70 TdF TTT, I beat the next closest team by over three minutes, put over five minutes into Contador, and came out of Stage 5 with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, & 4th overall and a total of 6:26 over Contador in 5th. I also only really dropped two of my riders along the way, though two more were coming apart in the last k... I will say it's 2014 on my game so AC has probably aged a bit and he's riding for a sprint heavy Katusha squad so he got a bit screwed on the team effort but, just the same, Tejay will be thanking that TTT for his first maillot jaune in about 10 days.
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 18-04-2011 09:09
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Protected Rider
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Munique wrote:
Any hints for TTT? Going to do Giro d'Italia soon, and wouldn't mess up the TTT
PCM Many players find a team time trial of the hardest parts, but on the basis of the following tactics we try to teach you how to do team time trial in such a good result can drop. This tactic has been tested on the difficult level, and ride that play is the team time trial in the Giro d'Italia.
Pre:
I chose a team for Cervélo test team, a very good team but thin sow with time riders. Beforehand you should look at your best time three drivers, in my case it was Konovalovas, Hushovd and Sastre.
Selection: Konovalovas (76TR), Hushovd (73TR), Sastre (73TR), Tondo (73TR), Haussler (72TR), Lancaster (70TR), Wyss (69TR), Denifl (68TR) and Rollin (67TR)
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The ride itself:
The riders of the Cervélo stand ready at the starting line, so it's time to give your orders. I start with the best time trialist, Konovalovas, 45 "take turn. Then we do 30 "at the second best time trialist (Hushovd) and the third best time trialist (Sastre) let 15" take over. Tondo put me on 10, "Haussler at 5" and the other riders had only 2 "over it. Finally we put the effort on everyone bar 85%.
At the first intermediate point my riders had the worst time of 40 seconds of the first. Do not panic, this is normal! You let the riders simply rotate to 85% from the previously specified settings. At the half point between what moves the team in the standings but is still a low place. We leave them as a few kilometers away, and 10 km of the measurement is the time to the effort to raise bar to 90%.
It may be that now some riders begin unloading the role, but this does not in itself a problem. At three kilometers from the end, everything will be put, and the exercise bar increases to 99%. The riders just seven seconds off bells of Caisse d'Epargne, on a provisional second place. Four more teams have the test, but both Lampre, Astana, Liquigas and Milram ride slower than Cervelo. Rider Rankings Carlos Sastre is doing a wonderful thing to say: with a weaker team on paper, he knows more than damage limitation in the team time trial.
from PCM benelux guide, Translated with google translate (if your dutch: https://www.procyclingmanager.com/tact...ctiek.html)
VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO VINO
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| Munique |
Posted on 18-04-2011 15:10
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Junior Rider
Posts: 45
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Thanks for the replies |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 18-04-2011 17:13
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
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dueceone wrote:
1st. I wasn't trying to piss on your technique or start some competition, I was just pointing out a fairly obvious flaw with leaving people pinned at 80 regardless of length or terrain...
Neither was me. I was just showing you that using that tactic, I got a nice and realistic result, so it works. There might be better ones, but I was just saying that one does work. And how can it show it works? By showing a result, simple. No competition or anything ^^
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