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Giro d'Italia 2012 - Week 3
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 25-05-2012 18:59
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We still need to consider the fact that both Basso and Scarponi seems to be either not in best form or just a past their peak.
As someone said earlier, 2010 Basso and 2011 Scarponi would probably have destroyed this field. But of course that's just a theory.
Edited by Pellizotti2 on 25-05-2012 18:59
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| jsh312mufc |
Posted on 25-05-2012 18:59
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Confirms my view that top 6/7 Tour could win the Giro if they went for it
Frank Schleck has a lot to say about that one. And so does Cadel Evans. |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 25-05-2012 19:02
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jsh312mufc wrote:
Confirms my view that top 6/7 Tour could win the Giro if they went for it
Frank Schleck has a lot to say about that one. And so does Cadel Evans.
I believe Schleck has the capacity to. He just doesn't give a damn about anything else than the Tour and the Ardennes. If he'd race the Giro in top form, he'd podium for sure.
As for Evans, he wasn't at his best in 2010, while Basso, Nibali and Scarponi were all very strong. Last year's Evans would've done much better.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2012 19:26
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I think the issue is far more complex. Vino and Evans couldn't even come close in 2010.
On the other hand you can't mention Cunego simply because last year every legitimate GC contender for the tour not named Schleck or Evans crashed either during the Tour or before it, harming their form or time standing. Frank was 3rd because there were 3 GC guys left, and Cunego was 6th so what does that say about him?
Basso and Scarponi are clearly weaker this year. Hesjedal is clearly stronger. Heck, UrĂ¡n and Pozzovivo are up there! That never happens! That should be proof enough that this is an abnormally weak field.
Quality of field varies. I mean, any of the top 10 of the 1985 Tour would've destroyed the field of the 1983 Tour* yet it was just a 2 year different. Too many factors go into it to make the analysis simplistic.
EDIT: *Except for the 1 guy who finished top 10 because of a breakaway
Edited by issoisso on 25-05-2012 19:28
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-05-2012 19:31
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kumazan wrote:
ruben wrote:
Confirms my view that top 6/7 Tour could win the Giro if they went for it
Cunego disagrees. Cunego won the Giro in 2004. So actually no  |
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-05-2012 19:32
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johannes-w wrote:
ruben wrote:
Pellizotti2 wrote:
I see the surprising results as a good sign.
The favourites are much more even than they've been in the past, and a rider like Hesjedal are able to match the top riders like Scarponi and Basso on the climbs. I think that indicates that the sport is much cleaner, with less dominant riders. Like Contador last year.
And obviously also because it's not possible to attack on an earlier climb and win by several minutes anymore.
Hesjedal was way underrated anyway. The guy finished 7th in the Tour, that's about as good Basso past-doping did.
Scarponi never did anything in the Tour even.
Confirms my view that top 6/7 Tour could win the Giro if they went for it
but kreuziger gets 9th in the tour twice and is not anywhere near a gt contender in your opinion?
also he was 6th in a very hard giro last year and is only 26 years old so i would not say he s not a gt contender
because kreuziger is miles and miles off the 7th place even when he got 9th.
He never impresses and always has 1 or 2 horrible days |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 25-05-2012 19:35
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And what's so surprising about Uran and Pozzo, isso? Uran is very talented. Starting his career too early and inability to find right team was the reason why he wasn't seen in previous years. And Pozzo, as Gesink sometimes, just couldn't get to climbs. He usually crashed, lost time or got sick before Giro even arrived to big mountains. Just based on pure climbing he probably is the best in this Giro. |
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| arthon |
Posted on 25-05-2012 20:26
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One can only wonder how would've this field managed on a '10/'11 route.
Edited by arthon on 25-05-2012 20:27
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| jph27 |
Posted on 25-05-2012 21:07
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Another battle to watch, and it's close with a fair few guys involved:
| 7 | John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale | 0:05:36 | | | 8 | Thomas De Gendt (Bel) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team | 0:05:40 | | | 9 | Sergio Luis Henao Montoya (Col) Sky Procycling | 0:05:47 | | | 10 | Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD | 0:06:09 | | | 11 | Johann Tschopp (Swi) BMC Racing Team | 0:06:18 | | | 12 | Dario Cataldo (Ita) Omega Pharma-Quickstep | 0:06:19 | | | 13 | Mikel Nieve Ituralde (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi | 0:06:28 | | | 14 | Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Katusha Team | 0:06:41 |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 25-05-2012 21:53
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De Gendt easily becomes seventh as he can take 3 minutes on all those guys in the TT. I actually see him winning the time trial!
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2012 21:56
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ruben wrote:
kumazan wrote:
ruben wrote:
Confirms my view that top 6/7 Tour could win the Giro if they went for it
Cunego disagrees. Cunego won the Giro in 2004. So actually no
That's like saying Vansummeren can win Roubaix again because he won it last year
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-05-2012 22:02
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Plus Cunego's 2004 was Giro was the weakest Grand Tour for ages, and would remain for a very long while, in terms of Watts. I reckon people have gotten a distorsed idea of his potential as a G.T. rider.
He only appeared as a decent contender again last year at the Tour de France, in a G.T. that was also very low in terms of power outputs (neither would Voeckler have been anywhere against opponents at their usual level). |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 25-05-2012 23:13
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Aquarius wrote:
Plus Cunego's 2004 was Giro was the weakest Grand Tour for ages, and would remain for a very long while, in terms of Watts. I reckon people have gotten a distorsed idea of his potential as a G.T. rider.
He only appeared as a decent contender again last year at the Tour de France, in a G.T. that was also very low in terms of power outputs (neither would Voeckler have been anywhere against opponents at their usual level).
I was talking about the way he won it. He won through a combination of a course suited to him, team tactics giving, and support from the strongest team in the race.
He was far from the best rider present.
That said, the massive hype back then was mostly because if he was that good at age 22, he could only improve, right? Turns out he's one of the many many examples of guys who really don't.
That plus the ridiculously exhausting schedule the team put him through that year burned him out a bit.
Edited by issoisso on 25-05-2012 23:14
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-05-2012 23:43
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plus he was not always doping free i reckon. |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 25-05-2012 23:48
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ruben wrote:
Confirms my view that top 6/7 Tour could win the Giro if they went for it
This is fun, lets play.
So I will look at the top 7 in the tour for the last 4 years, and see how they have done in other GTs
Evans - Podiumed in the vuelta, but only managed fifth in the giro. He's never covered himself in glory
Schleck A - second in the giro as a pipsqueak. Could have won the Giro had he cared
Schleck F - 5th in the Vuelta, but never looked like winning it, or any other GT.
Voekler - No evidence either way
Sanchez - Never tried the Giro, but come very close to winning the Vuelta, probably would have done so had he not crashed one day.
Cunego - Won the Giro
Basso - Won the Giro
Menchov - Won the Giro
Van Den Broeck - came 7th in the giro and 8th in the Vuelta. Not much to see here.
Gesink - came 6th in the Vuelta, but over 6 minutes back. Would have podiumed without his crash though.
Hesjedal- Just about won the giro
J-Rod - second in the giro, probably, consistant top 5 finisher everywhere, and probably the strongest counterargument to your hypothesis.
Contador - Won the giro
Amrstrong - 11th in the giro? probably could have won it in his heyday.
Wiggins - Podium in the vuelta, failled in the giro.
Kloden - Only ever done the tour.
Nibali - won the vuelta, possibly would have "won" the giro last year, had he not tried to win it outright.
Sastre - 2nd in the giro, during his streak of 7 consecutive to 4's over three years.
Vande Velde - diddly squat.
Counting back, we have:
Won other GT: 5
Could have won/come close: 5
Never remotely tried: 4
Tried and never came very close: 4
So I think you are being generous.
As for today, it's antisocial when the best placed rider turns out to be the best climber.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 26-05-2012 00:00
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Smal wrote:
Hesjedal 
About the last person I want to win out of the favourites
Haters gone hate. Suck it up! 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-05-2012 00:10
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ruben wrote:
plus he was not always doping free i reckon.
I reckon he's not now either
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 26-05-2012 00:11
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I think that as long as Hesjedal can survive tomorrow, he will win the Giro. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 26-05-2012 00:15
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I think that as long as Hesjedal can survive tomorrow, he will win the Giro.
I think his TT skills are being over-rated. He does poor in 3rd week TT's I recall. Another thing is that the TT is slightly hilly, I believe reducing any advantages he has just a bit.
As long as he has 30+ seconds to Basso and less than 30 seconds down on Purito he has a great chance though.
This result would basically make him the best Canadian rider ever so I'm sure he wont be short of motivation in the TT regardless.
Edited by valverde321 on 26-05-2012 00:19
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 26-05-2012 00:17
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issoisso wrote:
ruben wrote:
plus he was not always doping free i reckon.
I reckon he's not now either
Just general cynicism or is there weak curcumstancial evidence backing you up?
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