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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 19-02-2014 14:38
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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@TMM
1. Hmm.
I'm not so sure about that. If those talents win/podium big CT races, they deserve the stats, IMO.
Herklotz won't do amazing things on 70HI, but will still be good.
He outperformed several higher guys multiple times in the season.
https://www.procyc...?id=118182
https://www.procyc..._Markstein
https://www.procyc...?id=118235
https://www.procyc...?id=118185
That is the case for a few other talents as well.
2. We will consider that for next time, though 71 or 72HI seems to high, let's be honest, the opposition isn't world-class, he doesn't have to beat '73 HI guys'. 
3. I actually tried to prevent that a bit, don't think I've given anyone over 70 MO & 71SP in their best stat, while there were guys at 72/73 at first.
They will be free agents at first anyway, and some guys, like Meiyin Wang, Godoy, just deserve more than, f.e. 66/67MO. I know, they peak differently, that's why I didn't give them 73MO.
Expected more suggestions from you, so I take that as a good sign. 
Oh, and Gesink is definitely worth 79 MO, you know 
@Admir
That one was tough.
Be happy I didn't give him 77SP like Count once suggested
Ewan already proved to be able to get close to top-sprinters though, so I thought 74SP would be deserved.
Spoiler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIH3GcuWy9s
Don't forget that he'll be a free agent, so his development will be slower, and he will enter races only the next season, when he should've progressed irl anyway.
Plus he now has 7 potential to compensate.
Edited by Jesleyh on 19-02-2014 14:44
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2014 14:45
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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@Ewan talk
74 is too high. He's raced against the big names once, and we don't use one off stages for stats (otherwise i demand Yates to 77HL for beating Martin and Quintana in the ToB). He is talented yes but he is no where near that level yet.
Zabel has proved more imo than Ewan.
Equally team/FA should have no impact on stats. You make stats for the start of first season, because the development changes for every single career. Give him 7-8 potential fine, he will still develop in FA and will ALWAYS be signed for season 2 (even now i've never played a career where he or Mohoric the Yates bros etc are not signed for 2014).
I remember Villella and Cattaneo didn't get boosts because they were FA. I don't remember Yates or Yates or Zabel getting boosts for FA. Or Mohoric, the list goes on...
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 19-02-2014 14:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
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He doesn't get points for FA.
He's not OP because he doesn't race in the DB, his 74SP is not an effect of him being FA.
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PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2014 14:52
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Ah, i read it as he got to 74 because he is FA. Still say 74 is too high considering it is an increase from the 2013 DB and he hasn't done anything major since then
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 14:58
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 19-02-2014 14:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Hmm, okay.
Though he has in fact done 1 major thing.
Edited by Jesleyh on 19-02-2014 14:53
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-02-2014 14:59
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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Jesleyh wrote:
Though he has in fact done 1 major thing.
So did Yates and he actually won against a Monument winner and TDF podium finisher. Yet he doesn't have a corresponding increase...
Contextually it puts Ewan to the same ability range as Barguil (74MO), an non-rookie WT rider with 2 GT stage wins. Ewan is "unsigned" with only results at U23 and Junior level, which we all constantly say are not fully representative of talent or ability.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 19-02-2014 15:03
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
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Yeah, point stands.
Lets not forget Ewan beat guys like Alaphillipe, Enger, Havik, Zabel etc. several times, so it's not like he's an ordinary rookie, even without his People's Classic Results.
Though 74 MO is something different to 74SP to me, but okay, as said, point stands
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PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 19-02-2014 15:39
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Non-Europeans peak differently and this always makes problems, it is better in this DB but some of the Aussies and South Americans are a bit over done for my liking.
I'm wondering if I agree or not with TMM here concerning the South Americans (aka Tour de San Luis ). If f.e. Gustavo Veloso has 70 MO, then I can hardly see Godoy/Diniz with the same. About Godoy f.e., the TdSL was more of a one-off, in 2013 he wasn't even top 50 in San Luis mountains, or nothing noticeable in last year's Vuelta a Colombia. About Diniz, you should check out his performances in 2013 Tour of Utah. He crashed in stage 5 iirc, and I don't quite think he was in his best form, but he definitely wasn't in bad shape, so it can be a useful race to compare.
Then again, having them one or two points higher than I'd rate them might be the only way to have a chance at having realistic results in races like San Luis, otherwise we fall on PCMs limitations again (can't peak for January, difference between peak and worst form, from my experience, isn't even much big and you can't have riders dragged by motorcycles in the mountains).
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 02-03-2014 21:18
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I see this hasn't been updated in a while for stats:
Hofland needs a sprint increase upto 75/76 maybe. Stannard needs an increase in sprinting a bit as well (as he's only 64) and Vansummeran is a much better flatman than the 74 in the PCM14 database.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 02-03-2014 21:19
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:54
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
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Vanbilsen needs an update after winning La Marseillaise and a good Omloop Het Volk
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 09-03-2014 16:15
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
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I'm curious if recent races have caused any important changes in the db yet. =) |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 10-03-2014 13:01
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Pozzovivo mountain stat of 77 and hill stat of 75 maybe needs to be revised. Do people see him more of a mountain climber or hill climber?
Also Sagan with a hill stat of 78, isn't this too generous? |
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| Rabobankie |
Posted on 12-03-2014 04:15
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Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 22-03-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Will Moreno hofland's stats be updated? |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 12-03-2014 17:40
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
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Of course
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PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| raulvasa_9 |
Posted on 16-03-2014 18:42
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 09-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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And Mountain of Contador?? 81 at least |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 17-03-2014 11:35
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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raulvasa_9 wrote:
And Mountain of Contador?? 81 at least
I currently have my top ranked mountain climbers like so:
Froome 83
Quintana 82
Nibali 81
Rodriguez 81
Valverde 80
Contador 80
But I'm now sure to push Contador upto 81 as well.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 17-03-2014 11:36
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| atlanta |
Posted on 19-03-2014 18:49
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
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Contador should be 81 no doubt, i believe Conator will be better than Nibali, Nibali never do a performance like that. It's hard though Contador made Quintana look silly so i dont think he deserves to suddenly be level but its interesting,Catalunya will tell more if Contador destroys Froome and wins then he deserves 82.
Im fine with leaving him on 80 but when u see who else is on 80 and it's Valverde then Cntador has to be apoint above. It took Contador worst form in the TDF for Valverde to climb abit better it dont say much for Valverde does it that he beat him on AX-3 when Contador was poor,Valverde is not in his league on Mountains. |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 19-03-2014 18:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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It's Tirreno, not the TdF, Atlanta.
Putting Contador on 82 is definitely too much. I doubt Quintana was in top-form.
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PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Selwink |
Posted on 19-03-2014 18:53
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Valverde just had the material failure in the Tour, which most likely cost him a top-5, instead of Kreuziger. I think 80 for both Valv and Conta should be about fair. I understand you want him on 81, but keep in mind it's the Tirreno. In the Tour it should become clear who's better when everyone is at his best
Edit: which seems suspiciously much like Jesleyhs response
Edited by Selwink on 19-03-2014 18:54
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| atlanta |
Posted on 21-03-2014 01:48
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1220
Joined: 31-07-2011
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Jesleyh wrote:
It's Tirreno, not the TdF, Atlanta.
Putting Contador on 82 is definitely too much. I doubt Quintana was in top-form.
Were did i say put him on 82 after Tirreno Jesleyh? |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
