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Breakaways / Peloton AI - your experiences ?
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 30-07-2013 12:50
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
Joined: 28-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
I am not sure if it belongs here but I have seen the weirdest race results ever.
I did not participate in the Tour Down Under and therefore simulated it. Jens Voigt won the race because on every hilly stage the peloton split into many small groups and Voigt always was in the first group.
For all these hilly stages, the time gaps were like on mountain stages. Small groups of about 5 riders arriving together and the peloton way behind.
Is this a common problem with simulation? If yes, it might be possible to win the Tour de France with Rodriguez if I simulate all hilly stage. 
Never, NEVER simulate hilly stages. I tried it a few times when I was still new to PCM, but no I don't do it anymore, unless I really don't give a shit about the race. If you simulate, the breakaway always wins (and for some reason it's near impossible to enter a breakaway in a simulation) and if your GC-guy has only something like 76/77 on hills (which isn't a problem in 3D-racing) he's guaranteed to lose at least 4 minutes.
Also never simulate any race with cobbles in. Take for example Handzame classic. It normally ends in a bunch sprint because of that long flat piece after the cobbled hills, but if you simulate you get small groups and time gaps as if they races Paris-Roubaix. And if you simulate a cobbles race you have 50+% one of your riders will crash and break a bone. |
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| alex-sonic |
Posted on 31-07-2013 14:37
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 303
Joined: 04-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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What about the new patch? Just one feedback?
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| wargoose |
Posted on 31-07-2013 15:02
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Amateur
Posts: 22
Joined: 15-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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alex-sonic wrote:
What about the new patch? Just one feedback?
it's better for me |
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| Popeye |
Posted on 05-08-2013 13:10
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Under 23
Posts: 77
Joined: 03-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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alex-sonic wrote:
What about the new patch? Just one feedback?
I hate it. I think the peleton AI was MUCH better before patch 1.03.
Breakaways always get caught now.
I could not understand all the whining about the previous Ai. It was almost perfectly balanced.
But given that there was a substantial difference of opinion on this, the least Cyanide could have done was put in a configuration option to allow the player to choose the balance of the game, instead of always making half their users unhappy.
Edited by Popeye on 05-08-2013 13:10
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| deek12345 |
Posted on 05-08-2013 16:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2761
Joined: 13-06-2009
PCM$: 360.00
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Popeye wrote:
alex-sonic wrote:
What about the new patch? Just one feedback?
I hate it. I think the peleton AI was MUCH better before patch 1.03.
Breakaways always get caught now.
I could not understand all the whining about the previous Ai. It was almost perfectly balanced.
But given that there was a substantial difference of opinion on this, the least Cyanide could have done was put in a configuration option to allow the player to choose the balance of the game, instead of always making half their users unhappy.
I with you Popeye I didn't know what all the whining was about either thought it was pretty good pre 1.03 patch |
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| greco |
Posted on 05-08-2013 16:30
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Under 23
Posts: 62
Joined: 27-02-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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im playing with patch 1.0.3 and in my game, breakaways are still a bit overpowered.
Could it be, that the game acts different from one difficulty settings to another?
i |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 05-08-2013 16:39
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I have some easy wins from a breakaway recently. I played Tour of California in single race mode. On stage 1 I attacked by Stetina in the middle of 1st stage. Peloton didn't bother at all and I won with 20 minutes of advantage.
Also during one of the flat stages I attacked by Talansky in order to force other to keep the pace high without wasting energy of my lead-out men. They didn't chase at all until I got something like 2:30 advantage with 35 kms to go. Then they started to chase but I was able to lose very little time with low effort. When they reduced it to 50 seconds, I realised I was able to ride faster than peloton with high effort, so Talansky won with over a minute of advantage. There was a strong wind during that stage, though. I assume it was tail wind since Talansky was able to mainain his advantage so easy.
Edited by Anderis on 05-08-2013 16:44
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 05-08-2013 16:43
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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The problem isn't that the peloton isn't chasing, it's that the breakaay is still at full power going full blast. The new patch made it even worse.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 27-11-2024 17:41
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| Popeye |
Posted on 05-08-2013 20:37
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Under 23
Posts: 77
Joined: 03-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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There are too many differences in reports to be solely attributed to subjectivity.
Could it be linked to Processor/clock speeds ? Some other hardware ?
All I know for certain is that the game I was very happy with, is now totally boring and predictable. Totally ruined the game-play for me.
Given that this is such an important element I would hope that Cyanide pay some attention to this and fix it in a future patch.
Is there anywhere to complain and be heard ?
Official forum is kinda lame but I guess its the only place to go. |
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| Popeye |
Posted on 05-08-2013 21:00
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Under 23
Posts: 77
Joined: 03-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I have created a thread in the official forums to complain.
Please lend your support.
https://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumPC...19#p565919 |
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| Timer99 |
Posted on 06-08-2013 16:02
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Junior Rider
Posts: 30
Joined: 22-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I also think every player of PCM has a different taste of how many breakaways should cet caught or come through. So, for me the balance is quite ok now, but it´s also understandable (for me), if some people complain about too many or too less breakaway wins. |
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 06-08-2013 16:06
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4573
Joined: 07-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I have to say that I don't agree. Don't tell Cyanide to change back, because they will just go back to the old settings. We need advances in the form of breakaways not riding at full speed all day, so the peloton doesn't have to ride at ridiculous speed to catch them.
However, sometimes a break should be let go unlike now, so a balance is needed. I prefer the game now to before 1.03 anyway. |
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 06-08-2013 16:13
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Sprinter
Posts: 1765
Joined: 27-08-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I almost stopped trying to get riders in the break now, the peloton doesn't let them go anyways. Even riders not a threat for the GC get pulled back. I find it very hard to get in the break, and staying in front is even harder lol. |
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 06-08-2013 19:18
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Sprinter
Posts: 1765
Joined: 27-08-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
TimoCycling: That's not the topic of this thread. It is a known problem but it should be and even was discussed in another thread.
Alright sorry, you can delete it if you want to. |
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| longbow06 |
Posted on 06-08-2013 21:52
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Amateur
Posts: 8
Joined: 16-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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alek94 wrote:
Saevel wrote:
So I think the problem is twofold:
1) When the peloton decides to chase down the breakaway, it's too hard to close the gap when the breakaway speeds up (particularly within the last 20km). Whether this is due to breaks not tiring enough or the peloton not being fast enough when riding on high effort needs to be examined.
2) Tweaks are needed in the AI that decides race strategy. To be concrete:
-Riders that have something to race for needs to be more active. That is- sprint teams on flat stages (not just the favourite), white shirt- and gc-contenders in climbs, and riders defending other jerseys. Their teams also need to help out in many of these cases (if not all).
So to summarize what I think would be the quickest way to fix this:
1) A higher general initiative and activity among riders and teams in the peloton.
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2) The potential speed difference of the peloton vs the breakaway needs to be increased, somehow.
1) I think the problem is the breakaway. They have to much energy left after spending the entire day out front. I played stage 3 of Tour down Under and I had the breakaway controlled with about 20 km to go. They had about 1:30 lead on the peleton. With about 10km to go one of the breakaway riders attacked (I think it was C.Riblon). When he attacked he had about 50 sec advantage. Somehow he managed to hit 58 km/h on the flats without any help from the wind. Even a fresh F. Cancellara would strugle to do that for the last 10km. Obviously the peleton couldn't catch him and he won the stage.
I have the same problem all the time. Somehow 20km to go the breakaway riders have more energy than whole peloton. I really dont get it. My train is going one by one 99% and we cant catch them. Not realistic at all. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 07-08-2013 21:02
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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longbow06 wrote:
alek94 wrote:
Saevel wrote:
So I think the problem is twofold:
1) When the peloton decides to chase down the breakaway, it's too hard to close the gap when the breakaway speeds up (particularly within the last 20km). Whether this is due to breaks not tiring enough or the peloton not being fast enough when riding on high effort needs to be examined.
2) Tweaks are needed in the AI that decides race strategy. To be concrete:
-Riders that have something to race for needs to be more active. That is- sprint teams on flat stages (not just the favourite), white shirt- and gc-contenders in climbs, and riders defending other jerseys. Their teams also need to help out in many of these cases (if not all).
So to summarize what I think would be the quickest way to fix this:
1) A higher general initiative and activity among riders and teams in the peloton.
and
2) The potential speed difference of the peloton vs the breakaway needs to be increased, somehow.
1) I think the problem is the breakaway. They have to much energy left after spending the entire day out front. I played stage 3 of Tour down Under and I had the breakaway controlled with about 20 km to go. They had about 1:30 lead on the peleton. With about 10km to go one of the breakaway riders attacked (I think it was C.Riblon). When he attacked he had about 50 sec advantage. Somehow he managed to hit 58 km/h on the flats without any help from the wind. Even a fresh F. Cancellara would strugle to do that for the last 10km. Obviously the peleton couldn't catch him and he won the stage.
I have the same problem all the time. Somehow 20km to go the breakaway riders have more energy than whole peloton. I really dont get it. My train is going one by one 99% and we cant catch them. Not realistic at all.
Same problem here. Every single stage.
The break looks like its gonna be caught. The gap is under control. Then the peloton kind of slows for about 500m and suddenly the break's gained an extra minute or 2 on the gap. Its totally insane how hard they can be riding and its getting a little boring knowing that if I want a good result all I have to do is put a guy in the break.
It needs to be fixed 
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| Anderis |
Posted on 07-08-2013 21:06
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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My problem with peloton letting my riders go without chase is getting more and more serious. I just won Tour Down Under stage by Dennis this way. |
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| Popeye |
Posted on 09-08-2013 16:21
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Under 23
Posts: 77
Joined: 03-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I have to say that I don't agree. Don't tell Cyanide to change back, because they will just go back to the old settings. We need advances in the form of breakaways not riding at full speed all day, so the peloton doesn't have to ride at ridiculous speed to catch them.
However, sometimes a break should be let go unlike now, so a balance is needed. I prefer the game now to before 1.03 anyway.[/quote]
I have no problem with different views, which is why I ask Cyanide to provide a configuration option to accommodate differences of opinion.... |
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| RobbieMcEwen_Jaune |
Posted on 12-08-2013 07:00
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Junior Rider
Posts: 45
Joined: 03-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Finished playing the Tour of Langkawi last night and I have the latest patch 1.0.3.0 installed.
Tour of Langkawi is 10 stages, but the last real stage to determine the GC classification is the mountain top finish on stage 5. The last 5 stages are all flat.
One of my GC riders was placed 42nd in the GC at the end of stage 5, with just over 14 minutes time gap to the GC leader. He is a sprinter with high FL stat. He was the freshest rider on my team after stage 5.
Now I can understand that the GC has been decided after stage 5, but the sprinter teams and team holding the GC shirt will want to chase any breaks down in the last 5 stages. How come that 3 out of these last 5 flat stages were won by breakaway with the new patch? I understand the GC is already won, but surely the sprinter teams want to chase the break for stage wins?
What happened was that on 2 of these 3 wins by the break, I put my fresh sprinter with high FL stat into the break, and on both these times there was minimum chase from the peloton, and my rider won both the stages he was in the break, going long from 11km out by himself because he had the best FL stat of the riders in the break, and was not the strongest sprinter in the break. On each break he was the rider who was the closest time to the GC leader, and on the second break at one stage my rider was provisionally in the leaders jersey, before the peloton upped it's pace to stop him from gaining the leader jersey, but too late to stop him from winning from the break. He ended up moving from 42nd to 12th in the GC standings just by being in the break and winning from the break in 2 out of the last 5 stages, and reduced his time gap from over 14 minutes in the GC to just over 4 minutes with his two breakaway wins.
On the other occassion a break won a stage on the last 5 stages of that tour, I did not have a rider in the break, and had no need to chase the break, but the AI of the sprinter teams didn't bother to chase either. Surely the sprinters want to win flat stages, reagrdless of whether the GC is already decided or not?
What I think may effect the breakaway ability to succeeed, especially over the last few flat stages of a stage race is the AI fitness and freshness levels, which the human player cannot see.
I will also add that until last night after playing the Tour of Langkawi, I have never seen the breakaway be so successful so consistently in this game. It always was the breakaway getting caught in my game, but now suddenly the breakaway wins 3 out of the last 5 flat stages in a stage race.
Edited by RobbieMcEwen_Jaune on 12-08-2013 07:03
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| Lachi |
Posted on 12-08-2013 09:20
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Strange, I have never seen a successful break away since the latest patch. I wonder how the game experience can be so different. |
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